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Long overdue. I’m becoming more and more inclined to think that the criminalization isn’t bad because of the side-effects of criminalization. I think the very

Long overdue. I’m becoming more and more inclined to think that the criminalization isn’t bad because of the side-effects of criminalization. I think the very INTENTION of criminalization, to reduce the consumption of these drugs, is harmful.

inamberclad 3y ago
Yes, that's often the case. Many interests (alcohol, police, private prisons) gain revenue from all the 'drug crimes' that really shouldn't be treated as severely as they are. It's also a common excuse to arrest, search, and oppress minority groups while the affluent majority generally gets a pass.
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  That's only half the story... I believe Stephen Brust said something like "Each law is an opportunity" (speaking from a criminal's viewpoint).
  - mortureb 3y ago
    And honestly also from the cops perspective. It’s a way in.
babyshake 3y ago
This is especially true for psychedelics. Psychedelics are very useful, but really should not be sold by some anonymous person in a park or alley who isn't providing any guard rails or guidance.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  The worry is people relying on someone else with a title to make decisions who only have a fraction of information but people give themselves permission to turn off critical thinking. Getting from a park or alley people means you need to take responsibility because no one is looking out for you. In a store setting or expert setting many will blindly accept instructions designed for the average because someone sounds official (even if official is just trying to sell more product)
  - otherme123 3y ago
    This sounds logic on paper, but in reality is flawed: in an alley you almost never know what are you putting in your body, and you never can really make an informed and critical decision. Alley drugs addicts are 100% deprived of critical thinking, and they will not only blindly accept instructions from other drug addicts but trust that powder they are injecting is actually a non lethal dose of the expected substance. The only real decission you can make is "I'm not putting that in me". At least when a drug is legalized you can start at the point of "this is a 50 miligram dose of 99.9% pure heroin, not laced with fentanyl or rat poison, and I've used this before, so this should be safe for me".
WillPostForFood 3y ago
So far, the decriminalization of drug use in California has been a nightmare of human misery. Throwing psychedelics into the mix is going to make it even worse. It is a feeding a cycle of Mental Illness -> Drugs -> Homeless -> Drugs -> Mental Illness -> Homeless.
- pengaru 3y ago
  You're right, we'd be in a far better position with all those addicts behind bars with actual violent criminals.
- kinakomochidayo 3y ago
  Psychedelics != Opiates and Meth
- King-Aaron 3y ago
  Has there been any studies into the relationship between an increase in crime/mental health problems/etc and the decriminalisation of drugs in Cali (or elsewhere?)
  - krmboya 3y ago
    For thousands of years human existence, society made adjustments based on effects of observed harmful activities and habits, and codified them in the form of taboos and myths to pass them down to future generations. This happened without embarking on formal studies. My argument is that collective human intuition is good enough in many cases to avoid harming society, we are the evidence, because our ancestors survived
    - mitchellvdub 3y ago
      This is the very definition of survivor bias. Just because being afraid of the dark used to be evolutionarily benefitial, doesn't mean we need to continue being afraid.
      - 3y ago

inamberclad 3y ago

Yes, that's often the case. Many interests (alcohol, police, private prisons) gain revenue from all the 'drug crimes' that really shouldn't be treated as severely as they are. It's also a common excuse to arrest, search, and oppress minority groups while the affluent majority generally gets a pass.

readthenotes1 3y ago
That's only half the story... I believe Stephen Brust said something like "Each law is an opportunity" (speaking from a criminal's viewpoint).
- mortureb 3y ago
  And honestly also from the cops perspective. It’s a way in.

babyshake 3y ago

This is especially true for psychedelics. Psychedelics are very useful, but really should not be sold by some anonymous person in a park or alley who isn't providing any guard rails or guidance.

ipaddr 3y ago
The worry is people relying on someone else with a title to make decisions who only have a fraction of information but people give themselves permission to turn off critical thinking. Getting from a park or alley people means you need to take responsibility because no one is looking out for you. In a store setting or expert setting many will blindly accept instructions designed for the average because someone sounds official (even if official is just trying to sell more product)
- otherme123 3y ago
  This sounds logic on paper, but in reality is flawed: in an alley you almost never know what are you putting in your body, and you never can really make an informed and critical decision. Alley drugs addicts are 100% deprived of critical thinking, and they will not only blindly accept instructions from other drug addicts but trust that powder they are injecting is actually a non lethal dose of the expected substance. The only real decission you can make is "I'm not putting that in me". At least when a drug is legalized you can start at the point of "this is a 50 miligram dose of 99.9% pure heroin, not laced with fentanyl or rat poison, and I've used this before, so this should be safe for me".

WillPostForFood 3y ago

So far, the decriminalization of drug use in California has been a nightmare of human misery. Throwing psychedelics into the mix is going to make it even worse. It is a feeding a cycle of Mental Illness -> Drugs -> Homeless -> Drugs -> Mental Illness -> Homeless.

pengaru 3y ago
You're right, we'd be in a far better position with all those addicts behind bars with actual violent criminals.
kinakomochidayo 3y ago
Psychedelics != Opiates and Meth
King-Aaron 3y ago
Has there been any studies into the relationship between an increase in crime/mental health problems/etc and the decriminalisation of drugs in Cali (or elsewhere?)
- krmboya 3y ago
  For thousands of years human existence, society made adjustments based on effects of observed harmful activities and habits, and codified them in the form of taboos and myths to pass them down to future generations. This happened without embarking on formal studies. My argument is that collective human intuition is good enough in many cases to avoid harming society, we are the evidence, because our ancestors survived
  - mitchellvdub 3y ago
    This is the very definition of survivor bias. Just because being afraid of the dark used to be evolutionarily benefitial, doesn't mean we need to continue being afraid.
    - 3y ago