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What is frustrating is the NSO group continues to exist despite all the bad they do. How many people are they responsible for being on the receiving end of a bo
by 14 3y ago
What is frustrating is the NSO group continues to exist despite all the bad they do. How many people are they responsible for being on the receiving end of a bone saw?
- cumshitpiss 3y agoIt continues to exist because state governments have an interest for it to exist Check out The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World
- mensetmanusman 3y agoIf they didn’t exist it would be a different company in Russia or China. The demand exists.
- mrbombastic 3y agoMaybe that’s true, it probably is, but they should still be sanctioned into oblivion considering they consistently are in the headlines on the wrong end of this being used for deeply questionable purposes.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y agoThe US enjoys some fruits of their labor and they're conveniently distanced from any explicitly funded operations to avoid blow back when exploits are publicized. They won't enforce sanctions or, more practically, withhold the massive defense subsidies they give to Israel.
- rapind 3y agoSanction who? Israel? Talk about political suicide! Regardless, sanctions don’t, and never have, actually solved anything. We just ignore the data because no one has a better idea. NSO group will be its own worst enemy anyways as greed leads them into bed with the wrong people.
- rl3 3y ago>... as greed leads them into bed with the wrong people. I'd hope they're at least targeting their own customers as part of state-sanctioned operations. Still, that doesn't justify the dissidents they indirectly facilitate being thrown under the bus. Or on the receiving end of a bone saw, as another commenter put it.
- acdha 3y agoTrue, but there’s a real question about how effective they’d be. NSO has the veneer of legitimacy which means they can hire top notch talent by pretending their products are just law enforcement tools – fewer people would be comfortable working for a Russian mercenary group or able to tell their friends and family their work for a Chinese government vendor wasn’t helping oppression. That doesn't mean that everyone in the world is comfortable working for them but think about how it is for Palantir where a significant percentage of top tech talent don't seek employment there due to ethical concerns - NSO has similar problems but they'd be an order of magnitude worse if they weren't in a close ally country.
- hot_gril 3y agoAllowing a US+Israel-approved* company to do this makes higher revenues possible, meaning they can attract higher talent => more hacks. Which would be fine if we prevented them from selling to unwanted customers. With weapons, we control who gets them, regardless of money. * I was going to say "sanctioned," but that word can mean two entirely opposite things, it's dumb
- Obscurity4340 3y agoElcomsoft is their Russian analogue
- jacquesm 3y agoAt the risk of being boring: software liability would go a long way towards getting companies to do this work themselves. Even though Apple is the largest company on the planet an entity that has a small fraction of the budget is apparently able to do a better job. I don't see why Apple couldn't make those people an offer they can't refuse. That takes them off the market and has them doing something productive.
- phendrenad2 3y agoSoftware liability would effectively crush smaller companies, unable to keep up with the lawsuits, because they don't have billions in the bank.
- jacquesm 3y agoIf your software can cause billions of damage and you don't have billions in the bank you are in the wrong business, or acting very irresponsibly.
- RhodesianHunter 3y agoSmall companies can't cause billions in damage though...
- jacquesm 3y agoThe argument wasn't mine.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoYes they can? It's totally possible for a small, well connected, group to be writing small pieces of custom code in very critical applications, like core reactor controls system for navy submarines.
- RhodesianHunter 3y agoThose may be small teams, but they are most definitely not small companies.
- ars 3y agoAre you sure they are doing so much bad? They get some press for it, but the rule about news is they report only the non-typical thing. The vast majority of the NSO's work is stuff you would not object to, but that's boring and doesn't qualify as news.
- saagarjha 3y agoMost organizations are not universally immoral, yes.