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I've had high hopes for this project since its announcement, but until it's open-source, I'm not investing any time in it. That's the only announcement I care a

I've had high hopes for this project since its announcement, but until it's open-source, I'm not investing any time in it. That's the only announcement I care about

etra0 3y ago
Same, and even worse, the playground requires you to be logged in. That's like the initial step of a demo and requiring an account is simply nuts.
- uoaei 3y ago
  The same is true of GPT. Just sayin. Actually GPT is worse because they demand both a phone number and an email. Still haven't signed up because of that nonsense.
  - debugnik 3y ago
    LLM inference takes up some scarce GPU time and many people are trying to use free entrypoints to build services instead of the intended paid APIs, so I understand why those services want to put limits on usage. Programming playgrounds however are freely available for pretty much every mildly popular language, and these days many toolchains can even be compiled and run with JS or WASM so one could just serve some static files to host it. This is definitely more suspicious than what OpenAI and other ML companies are doing.
  - archargelod 3y ago
    I can understand why openai requires phone number. With how much resources they spend on each prompt, they want to limit abuse of their systems. Also ChatGpt is not available in many countries and a phone number is reliable enough test of location. I am myself in one of these countries, but I also care about my privacy, so I use services that use chatGPT indirectly instead: https://you.com https://you.com with disposable email and https://phind.com https://phind.com
    - uoaei 3y ago
      Given the iris-cataloguing efforts of Altman's Worldcoin, and Microsoft's intrusive telemetry-surveillance, I would doubt that's the only reason. I appreciate you offering an alternative that preserves a small measure of privacy.
  - takeda 3y ago
    That's why I don't use GPT.
  - version_five 3y ago
    There is no parallel. If meta required you to be logged in to run local inference with llama, that might be similar. Your using openai's cloud so you're logged in.
kunwon1 3y ago
Their FAQ says this: Over time we expect to open-source core parts of Mojo, such as the standard library. However, Mojo is still young, so we will continue to incubate it within Modular until more of its internal architecture is fleshed out. We don’t have an established plan for open-sourcing yet. I read this as: "There are parts of Mojo that we are not planning to open source" Which makes this a non-starter for me as well
- ActivePattern 3y ago
  I believe that Chris Lattner (Mojo lead) has said that its going to be open-source eventually. He's followed the same process as with Swift, where they did't open it up until major design decisions had been worked out with the core team.
  - jackclayton 3y ago
    This is true, he talked about this recently in a livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQh9es5gfpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQh9es5gfpo Disclaimer: I work for Modular
    - vorticalbox 3y ago
      Then why not just be open source from the start? What benefits does one get from starting off closed and transitioning to open source?
      - umvi 3y ago
        Maybe you don't want the peanut gallery commenting/complaining/whatever about your architecture until you are ready (otherwise architect astronauts could inundate your comm channels with suggestions, comments, PRs, etc)
        demandingturtle 3y ago
        [dead]
bsder 3y ago
I agree. And I'm in the same boat about JAI. No open source--no attention. Otherwise, you get stuff like the "Our Machinery" fiasco: https://www.reddit.com/r/gameenginedevs/comments/wd3o33/development_on_the_machinery_has_apparently_ceased/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gameenginedevs/comments/wd3o33/deve...
- TeaDude 3y ago
  That engine popped into my head again today and I'm pretty sure that we're still no closer to finding out what actually happened. Most likely some beef with Autodesk. Also I'm not sure whay JB is expecting in 5 years when he releases a paid version and all the languages that were inspired by it are more commonplace.
entropyie 3y ago
I dunno, remains to be proven, but if you managed a commercial python code base and could get a 2x performance improvement across the board by switching interpreters, wouldn't you at least give it a shot?
norwalkbear 3y ago
Yea DOA for me too

I've had high hopes for this project since its announcement, but until it's open-source, I'm not investing any time in it. That's the only announcement I care about

etra0 3y ago

Same, and even worse, the playground requires you to be logged in. That's like the initial step of a demo and requiring an account is simply nuts.

uoaei 3y ago
The same is true of GPT. Just sayin. Actually GPT is worse because they demand both a phone number and an email. Still haven't signed up because of that nonsense.
- debugnik 3y ago
  LLM inference takes up some scarce GPU time and many people are trying to use free entrypoints to build services instead of the intended paid APIs, so I understand why those services want to put limits on usage. Programming playgrounds however are freely available for pretty much every mildly popular language, and these days many toolchains can even be compiled and run with JS or WASM so one could just serve some static files to host it. This is definitely more suspicious than what OpenAI and other ML companies are doing.
- archargelod 3y ago
  I can understand why openai requires phone number. With how much resources they spend on each prompt, they want to limit abuse of their systems. Also ChatGpt is not available in many countries and a phone number is reliable enough test of location. I am myself in one of these countries, but I also care about my privacy, so I use services that use chatGPT indirectly instead: https://you.com https://you.com with disposable email and https://phind.com https://phind.com
  - uoaei 3y ago
    Given the iris-cataloguing efforts of Altman's Worldcoin, and Microsoft's intrusive telemetry-surveillance, I would doubt that's the only reason. I appreciate you offering an alternative that preserves a small measure of privacy.
- takeda 3y ago
  That's why I don't use GPT.
- version_five 3y ago
  There is no parallel. If meta required you to be logged in to run local inference with llama, that might be similar. Your using openai's cloud so you're logged in.

kunwon1 3y ago

Their FAQ says this: Over time we expect to open-source core parts of Mojo, such as the standard library. However, Mojo is still young, so we will continue to incubate it within Modular until more of its internal architecture is fleshed out. We don’t have an established plan for open-sourcing yet. I read this as: "There are parts of Mojo that we are not planning to open source" Which makes this a non-starter for me as well

ActivePattern 3y ago
I believe that Chris Lattner (Mojo lead) has said that its going to be open-source eventually. He's followed the same process as with Swift, where they did't open it up until major design decisions had been worked out with the core team.
- jackclayton 3y ago
  This is true, he talked about this recently in a livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQh9es5gfpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQh9es5gfpo Disclaimer: I work for Modular
  - vorticalbox 3y ago
    Then why not just be open source from the start? What benefits does one get from starting off closed and transitioning to open source?
    - umvi 3y ago
      Maybe you don't want the peanut gallery commenting/complaining/whatever about your architecture until you are ready (otherwise architect astronauts could inundate your comm channels with suggestions, comments, PRs, etc)
      - demandingturtle 3y ago
        [dead]

bsder 3y ago

I agree. And I'm in the same boat about JAI. No open source--no attention. Otherwise, you get stuff like the "Our Machinery" fiasco: https://www.reddit.com/r/gameenginedevs/comments/wd3o33/development_on_the_machinery_has_apparently_ceased/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gameenginedevs/comments/wd3o33/deve...

TeaDude 3y ago
That engine popped into my head again today and I'm pretty sure that we're still no closer to finding out what actually happened. Most likely some beef with Autodesk. Also I'm not sure whay JB is expecting in 5 years when he releases a paid version and all the languages that were inspired by it are more commonplace.

entropyie 3y ago

I dunno, remains to be proven, but if you managed a commercial python code base and could get a 2x performance improvement across the board by switching interpreters, wouldn't you at least give it a shot?

norwalkbear 3y ago

Yea DOA for me too