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Didn't try downloading the SDK yet, but in the playground, seems like the "Python superset" advertisement does not hold (trying to define a class gives "error:

by smacke 3y ago

Didn't try downloading the SDK yet, but in the playground, seems like the "Python superset" advertisement does not hold (trying to define a class gives "error: classes not implemented yet"). Great to see progress in this space but I think the real killer feature of Mojo would be to run any existing Python program and allow programmers to incrementally adopt Mojo's syntax for targeted optimizations, and seems like we're not there yet.

graypegg 3y ago
Something feels so... off about this. It's a closed source product (I think? I see no where to contribute) so I can imagine the need for walling off local dev tools until they're ready for prime time, but it doesn't even seem like they are ready. They'll have you sign up before downloading some blackbox SDK that half-implements a language that they pinky-promise they won't abandon and you have no recourse to recover if they do. If their intent is to flesh out a basic product then open things up, then I take that back, but as of right now, they seem to be pitching it as "ready to go" based on the copy here. That's a lot of trust to put with them.
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  Yeah, when they first announced Mojo I thought it would take a lot of wind out of Julia's sails, but I'm starting to think that's not going to be the case. Title should probably be changed to "Mojo: It's kind'a, partly here"
  - WanderPanda 3y ago
    Yes especially because Julia has quite good Python interoperability
giancarlostoro 3y ago
I hope they at least target most / all the syntax at a minimum.
eddtests 3y ago
Ha, that is a substantial gap. I was expecting some issues with third party libraries, not a core part of the language missing.
TradingPlaces 3y ago
It’s a PyTorch superset and they aim to be a full python superset eventually
- ioedward 3y ago
  Not at all, PyTorch uses sub-classing (nn.Module) and other Pythonic features heavily that are not supported with Mojo.
IshKebab 3y ago
I don't think it really is a Python superset. They say "one language" but as far as I can tell it's actually Python + a language that integrates well with Python. Kind of like Cython. Last time this came up I found out they're actually using CPython to execute Python code, so I have no idea how you get a 22kB static binary out of it, unless that example is just pure Mojo and no Python. Either way it definitely feels like they keep hammering the amazing "Python but good!" line without actually explaining how it works, which makes me a little suss. Like they're scared of explaining it because then they'll have to say the thing they aren't saying.
roboquant 3y ago
They seem to have a very large task at hand and with a relative small team I cannot see them implementing all the missing Python functionality in a 1-2 year timeframe. Not only language features like classes, but also the standard library is a huge task. And this is next to the superset features they want to implement which currently seem to take all the manpower. 100mn is a lot of money, but a problem is that developers that can contribute in this space are rare and expensive. Not something any developer can do. But hopefully I’m wrong and it is more than yet another “colony on Mars” story to attract interest and invested tots.

by smacke 3y ago

graypegg 3y ago

Something feels so... off about this. It's a closed source product (I think? I see no where to contribute) so I can imagine the need for walling off local dev tools until they're ready for prime time, but it doesn't even seem like they are ready. They'll have you sign up before downloading some blackbox SDK that half-implements a language that they pinky-promise they won't abandon and you have no recourse to recover if they do. If their intent is to flesh out a basic product then open things up, then I take that back, but as of right now, they seem to be pitching it as "ready to go" based on the copy here. That's a lot of trust to put with them.

UncleOxidant 3y ago
Yeah, when they first announced Mojo I thought it would take a lot of wind out of Julia's sails, but I'm starting to think that's not going to be the case. Title should probably be changed to "Mojo: It's kind'a, partly here"
- WanderPanda 3y ago
  Yes especially because Julia has quite good Python interoperability

giancarlostoro 3y ago

I hope they at least target most / all the syntax at a minimum.

eddtests 3y ago

Ha, that is a substantial gap. I was expecting some issues with third party libraries, not a core part of the language missing.

TradingPlaces 3y ago

It’s a PyTorch superset and they aim to be a full python superset eventually

ioedward 3y ago
Not at all, PyTorch uses sub-classing (nn.Module) and other Pythonic features heavily that are not supported with Mojo.

IshKebab 3y ago

I don't think it really is a Python superset. They say "one language" but as far as I can tell it's actually Python + a language that integrates well with Python. Kind of like Cython. Last time this came up I found out they're actually using CPython to execute Python code, so I have no idea how you get a 22kB static binary out of it, unless that example is just pure Mojo and no Python. Either way it definitely feels like they keep hammering the amazing "Python but good!" line without actually explaining how it works, which makes me a little suss. Like they're scared of explaining it because then they'll have to say the thing they aren't saying.

roboquant 3y ago

They seem to have a very large task at hand and with a relative small team I cannot see them implementing all the missing Python functionality in a 1-2 year timeframe. Not only language features like classes, but also the standard library is a huge task. And this is next to the superset features they want to implement which currently seem to take all the manpower. 100mn is a lot of money, but a problem is that developers that can contribute in this space are rare and expensive. Not something any developer can do. But hopefully I’m wrong and it is more than yet another “colony on Mars” story to attract interest and invested tots.