5 ms·

And yet many countries are investing hard in making "plastic roads". Plastic waste is put into the road, turning it into a horizontal garbage dump where cars a

And yet many countries are investing hard in making "plastic roads". Plastic waste is put into the road, turning it into a horizontal garbage dump where cars and trucks run over it and grind out the microplastics into the air, water, food, soil, plants, animals and people. Why do they do this? Because plastic in landfill is apparently the worst thing that can happen to plastic waste. Instead of containing the toxicity to the local area of the landfill, it is spread everywhere via the roads. Places in India make it a legal requirement. I feel sorry for India - all those schools and houses with toxic roads running right in front of them. The biggest argument I have heard against plastic roads is "well roads are bad for the environment anyway, so no reason not to fill them with plastic". https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jun/30/plastic-road-india-tar-plastic-transport-environment-pollution-waste https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jun/30... Vested interests hard at work to legitimize plastic roads: https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2023/aug/recycled-plastic-roads-victoria https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2023/aug/recycled-plas... And those pesky environmentalists getting in the way of progress: https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-science-stacks-up-for-recycled-roads-why-aren-t-they-everywhere-20230811-p5dvu5.html https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-science-stacks-up-for...

dottjt 3y ago
Sort of funny, because I remember in school we were taught "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" but maybe that simply doesn't work as a concept for most modern materials.
- chongli 3y ago
  I was taught the same slogan in school as well. The 3 R’s we called it! I think where we went wrong is we started ignoring the first two and went all in on the third. I remember at one point we saw a demo of an alternative 2 litre pop (soda) bottle that used slightly thicker plastic which made it durable enough to be collected, washed, and refilled. It never came to market here, unfortunately. I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    The first two are bad for business unfortunately. They're a tough sell in practice even though they are more important.
  - Y_Y 3y ago
    Go to somewhere like Germany. You pay a "Pfand" when you buy the plastic bottle and it's noticeably sturdier than in countries without this system. There are machines everywhere (especially in supermarkets) that you can put the bottles into. The machine collects them for cleaning and refilling and you get your Pfand back. The infrastructure isn't crazy and it's working nicely in plenty of countries.
    - chongli 3y ago
      That's a great system. We call it a "deposit" and but we only use it for beer here. For a long time, beer was only sold at specific beer stores so it was natural for people to return their empty bottles and cans to the store for the deposit.
    - pvorb 3y ago
      But there's also the so-called "Einweg-Pfand" for single-use bottles. The reverse venting machines will also take those back but immediately cut them down into small pieces. Supermarket chains lure you into believing that all of the plastic from those bottles will be reused to create new ones.
  - jabbany 3y ago
    > I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure. This is kind of surprising. I remember when I was a kid (not that many decades ago), things like milk, soda, yogurt etc. would come in glass or ceramic bottles under a subscription service. [For context this wasn't in the US] Every time the delivery day came, you would set out (sometimes a crate of) empty bottles that were then exchanged for the same amount of filled bottles. They'd then wash and sterilize the old bottles centrally and refill and recap for a future delivery. Thing is, I don't recall buying drinks this way being more expensive per-bottle than what it costs today. Perhaps slightly more inconvenient since you had to remember to set out the old bottles, but it's not like people don't do that anyways today with their recycling...
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Plastic roads aren't recycling, and it's not green - it's toxic waste disposal. The reason they are getting traction is because at first glance it sounds like a great idea. Only when you think about the detail that you start to realise that unintended consequences. The question to really focus on is "why are environmentalists so obsessed with keeping plastic out of landfill?". Environmentalists will go to almost any length to keep plastic out of landfill. But WHY? The safest place for plastic waste is in landfill, not out in the environment distributed everywhere as microplastics. In Australia there's a ridiculous utter obsession with "recycling plastic", as though it is some sort of solution to the plastic problem. Recycling plastic is not a solution because the flow of plastic is so utterly gargantuan that no amount of recycling can get on top of it. And that is when governments that are under pressure to do something about it turn to plastic roads. "What are we going to do with this firehose of waste plastic? Well we CANNOT put it in landfill because landfill is the worst thing in the world, so we must put it in roads."
- Pxtl 3y ago
  The trick was that "recycle" was always a lie when it came to plastic. Paper can be recycled, but it's not super efficient. Metal can be recycled profitably. Glass can be recycled or even just reused. But plastic? It's stupid-expensive to recycle and degrades too much to be endlessly reusable. Imho all single-use plastic (and similar non-recyclable non-biodegradable products like non-recyclable coated paper products) should be taxed by mass. Get rid of the stupid "plastic straw ban" and "plastic bag ban" piecemeal garbage that punishes consumers while ignoring commercial users and hit everybody equally.
  - unyttigfjelltol 3y ago
    It's impossible to buy food and beverages packaged in anything but single-use plastics. You'd think someone would have built a commercial alternative.
artursapek 3y ago
this is my first time hearing about plastic roads and it sounds like satire.
- dottjt 3y ago
  Well asphalt is made in part from oil, so it's just another form of that.
  - artursapek 3y ago
    what’s your point? all kinds of shit is derived from oil
    - xeromal 3y ago
      I think the point is plastic roads and asphalt roads are just sibling forms of oil
      - artursapek 3y ago
        countless modern substances and materials are siblings if you look at it this way. you sleep on polyester mattress, why not sleep on asphalt? etc
    - dottjt 3y ago
      The point is that it's not far-fetched that they're making roads out of plastic. It's a viable material for cars to drive on, which is the purpose of building of roads.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Or a new verse to Fake Plastic Trees.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
smileysteve 3y ago
Plastic infilled roads seem like false concern where they've been paved with tar (a coal/petroleum product) for decades. And yes, the tar comes off in tiny pieces over time too. https://ecoshieldasphalt.com/news/environmental-impact-of-coal-tar-pitch/ https://ecoshieldasphalt.com/news/environmental-impact-of-co... Maybe if we'd already shifted to all concrete roads, or every road we're talking about was paved with something else. Or if road diets were happening all over the world.
- citrin_ru 3y ago
  Most roads use bitumen (a heavy oil fraction) which AFIK less harmful in a long term than BPA containing plastic. Oil contain some harmful for health compounds (in small amounts) but they AFIK degrade in then environment much faster than BPA.

dottjt 3y ago

Sort of funny, because I remember in school we were taught "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" but maybe that simply doesn't work as a concept for most modern materials.

chongli 3y ago
I was taught the same slogan in school as well. The 3 R’s we called it! I think where we went wrong is we started ignoring the first two and went all in on the third. I remember at one point we saw a demo of an alternative 2 litre pop (soda) bottle that used slightly thicker plastic which made it durable enough to be collected, washed, and refilled. It never came to market here, unfortunately. I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  The first two are bad for business unfortunately. They're a tough sell in practice even though they are more important.
- Y_Y 3y ago
  Go to somewhere like Germany. You pay a "Pfand" when you buy the plastic bottle and it's noticeably sturdier than in countries without this system. There are machines everywhere (especially in supermarkets) that you can put the bottles into. The machine collects them for cleaning and refilling and you get your Pfand back. The infrastructure isn't crazy and it's working nicely in plenty of countries.
  - chongli 3y ago
    That's a great system. We call it a "deposit" and but we only use it for beer here. For a long time, beer was only sold at specific beer stores so it was natural for people to return their empty bottles and cans to the store for the deposit.
  - pvorb 3y ago
    But there's also the so-called "Einweg-Pfand" for single-use bottles. The reverse venting machines will also take those back but immediately cut them down into small pieces. Supermarket chains lure you into believing that all of the plastic from those bottles will be reused to create new ones.
- jabbany 3y ago
  > I guess no one was willing to put in the infrastructure. This is kind of surprising. I remember when I was a kid (not that many decades ago), things like milk, soda, yogurt etc. would come in glass or ceramic bottles under a subscription service. [For context this wasn't in the US] Every time the delivery day came, you would set out (sometimes a crate of) empty bottles that were then exchanged for the same amount of filled bottles. They'd then wash and sterilize the old bottles centrally and refill and recap for a future delivery. Thing is, I don't recall buying drinks this way being more expensive per-bottle than what it costs today. Perhaps slightly more inconvenient since you had to remember to set out the old bottles, but it's not like people don't do that anyways today with their recycling...
andrewstuart 3y ago
Plastic roads aren't recycling, and it's not green - it's toxic waste disposal. The reason they are getting traction is because at first glance it sounds like a great idea. Only when you think about the detail that you start to realise that unintended consequences. The question to really focus on is "why are environmentalists so obsessed with keeping plastic out of landfill?". Environmentalists will go to almost any length to keep plastic out of landfill. But WHY? The safest place for plastic waste is in landfill, not out in the environment distributed everywhere as microplastics. In Australia there's a ridiculous utter obsession with "recycling plastic", as though it is some sort of solution to the plastic problem. Recycling plastic is not a solution because the flow of plastic is so utterly gargantuan that no amount of recycling can get on top of it. And that is when governments that are under pressure to do something about it turn to plastic roads. "What are we going to do with this firehose of waste plastic? Well we CANNOT put it in landfill because landfill is the worst thing in the world, so we must put it in roads."
Pxtl 3y ago
The trick was that "recycle" was always a lie when it came to plastic. Paper can be recycled, but it's not super efficient. Metal can be recycled profitably. Glass can be recycled or even just reused. But plastic? It's stupid-expensive to recycle and degrades too much to be endlessly reusable. Imho all single-use plastic (and similar non-recyclable non-biodegradable products like non-recyclable coated paper products) should be taxed by mass. Get rid of the stupid "plastic straw ban" and "plastic bag ban" piecemeal garbage that punishes consumers while ignoring commercial users and hit everybody equally.
- unyttigfjelltol 3y ago
  It's impossible to buy food and beverages packaged in anything but single-use plastics. You'd think someone would have built a commercial alternative.

artursapek 3y ago

this is my first time hearing about plastic roads and it sounds like satire.

dottjt 3y ago
Well asphalt is made in part from oil, so it's just another form of that.
- artursapek 3y ago
  what’s your point? all kinds of shit is derived from oil
  - xeromal 3y ago
    I think the point is plastic roads and asphalt roads are just sibling forms of oil
    - artursapek 3y ago
      countless modern substances and materials are siblings if you look at it this way. you sleep on polyester mattress, why not sleep on asphalt? etc
  - dottjt 3y ago
    The point is that it's not far-fetched that they're making roads out of plastic. It's a viable material for cars to drive on, which is the purpose of building of roads.
hinkley 3y ago
Or a new verse to Fake Plastic Trees.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

smileysteve 3y ago

Plastic infilled roads seem like false concern where they've been paved with tar (a coal/petroleum product) for decades. And yes, the tar comes off in tiny pieces over time too. https://ecoshieldasphalt.com/news/environmental-impact-of-coal-tar-pitch/ https://ecoshieldasphalt.com/news/environmental-impact-of-co... Maybe if we'd already shifted to all concrete roads, or every road we're talking about was paved with something else. Or if road diets were happening all over the world.

citrin_ru 3y ago
Most roads use bitumen (a heavy oil fraction) which AFIK less harmful in a long term than BPA containing plastic. Oil contain some harmful for health compounds (in small amounts) but they AFIK degrade in then environment much faster than BPA.