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> As an European, where we drive mostly stick Enjoy it while it lasts. As of a couple years ago, more than half of all new cars sold in Europe are automatics.

> As an European, where we drive mostly stick Enjoy it while it lasts. As of a couple years ago, more than half of all new cars sold in Europe are automatics. That doesn't seem too surprising, I imagine the same logic that made manuals appealing in the past is why automatics are appealing today.

sergiosgc 3y ago
I'm on the side fostering that change. Ever since I got a Mini Countryman with a ZF6. I was forced into an automatic because the car was a hybrid, and now I wouldn't go back to manual. The car was a little janky from a dead stop, when running solely on gas. I probably would miss the precision for maneuvering you get with a clutch. I didn't, actually, because of the electric motor doing these operations perfectly.
- dingaling 3y ago
  It is possible to combin a hybrid drive line with manual transmission, as Toyota is developing: https://www.topspeed.com/toyota-manual-for-hybrids-game-changer/ https://www.topspeed.com/toyota-manual-for-hybrids-game-chan...
SoftTalker 3y ago
Automatics are more fuel efficient, and govenment keeps raising the efficiency requirements. Automatics do this by having a lot of gears and changing up very aggressively. It would suck to drive a 7 or 9 speed manual (maybe truck drivers feel differently; I think 5 is optimal for a car) but automatics can manage it and squeeeze out another tenth of an MPG. I love manual transmissions and will never buy an automatic unless forced to. I'd rather buy a used car with a manual than anything new.
- stork19 3y ago
  Noooo. Manuals are on average much more efficient. I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight, and the manual version gets ~10 mpg more than the automatic.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    > Manuals are > I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight 1st gen Honda insight is "1999–2006" (1) so this anecdote is dated. Manuals were more efficient, but currently no, they are not so any more. Apparently that only changed recently, shortly after this time period (2) 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight 2) https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1127-march-30-2020-model-year-2016-automatic-transmissions-have https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1127-marc... https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/blog/automatic-vs-manual-cars-which-one-is-more-fuel-efficient/ https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/blog/automatic-vs-manual-car... https://www.car.co.uk/media/blogs/fuel-alternative-fuels/do-manual-or-automatic-cars-use-more-fuel https://www.car.co.uk/media/blogs/fuel-alternative-fuels/do-... https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/9kye2h/comment/e72qx6t/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/9kye2h/comment/e72qx6...
  - briffle 3y ago
    Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band. In addtion, no heavy duty pickup comes with a manual anymore, but the ones that did years ago, de-tuned the engines in the manuals, so people didn't burn up the clutch. Modern Diesel Heavy Duty pickups only put their full 1000 ft/lbs to the wheels in 3rd gear or higher, something they can't enforce in a manual. Also, in most manuals (granted, its been a few years since I drove one) with turbos, pushing the clutch stats unspooling the turbo, where in most automatics, it does not. (since its knows your shifting, and not just coasting) Yes, these are all related to driver skill, and a skilled driver will not cause problems. But I wouldn't want to warranty the systems on an 'average' driver..
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      > Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band. This is so true. As someone who owns a fairly modern truck (2019 F250) that missed the good transmission by a single year. My truck would dearly love to have at least one more gear between 2nd and 3rd when I'm going up the mountain. I end up having to choose between trying to keep my inertia high (tough with corners) or give up and let it drop down to 35-40 so that 2nd gear isn't trying to tear the engine off the mounts. I may end up putting in shorter differential gears to work around that. Don't really want to fork out for a new truck.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I assume the efficiency requirements are why my car doesn't provide a way to permanently turn off the auto idle start/stop. The button's to temporarily disable it is convenient enough to make it something of a reflex. But it's a feature I really don't like when I'm making an unprotected left hand turn for example.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    My wife's car has that; I find that if I stop and keep my foot very lightly on the brake, just enough to stop the car rolling, it doesn't shut the engine off. If I step more firmly on the brake while I'm stopped, it shuts the engine off. Also some of the diagnostic scanners will have a way to disable the auto stop/start, or so I've heard. I have a scanner but haven't tried it on her car.

sergiosgc 3y ago

I'm on the side fostering that change. Ever since I got a Mini Countryman with a ZF6. I was forced into an automatic because the car was a hybrid, and now I wouldn't go back to manual. The car was a little janky from a dead stop, when running solely on gas. I probably would miss the precision for maneuvering you get with a clutch. I didn't, actually, because of the electric motor doing these operations perfectly.

dingaling 3y ago
It is possible to combin a hybrid drive line with manual transmission, as Toyota is developing: https://www.topspeed.com/toyota-manual-for-hybrids-game-changer/ https://www.topspeed.com/toyota-manual-for-hybrids-game-chan...

SoftTalker 3y ago

Automatics are more fuel efficient, and govenment keeps raising the efficiency requirements. Automatics do this by having a lot of gears and changing up very aggressively. It would suck to drive a 7 or 9 speed manual (maybe truck drivers feel differently; I think 5 is optimal for a car) but automatics can manage it and squeeeze out another tenth of an MPG. I love manual transmissions and will never buy an automatic unless forced to. I'd rather buy a used car with a manual than anything new.

stork19 3y ago
Noooo. Manuals are on average much more efficient. I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight, and the manual version gets ~10 mpg more than the automatic.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  > Manuals are > I drive a 1st generation Honda Insight 1st gen Honda insight is "1999–2006" (1) so this anecdote is dated. Manuals were more efficient, but currently no, they are not so any more. Apparently that only changed recently, shortly after this time period (2) 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight 2) https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1127-march-30-2020-model-year-2016-automatic-transmissions-have https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1127-marc... https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/blog/automatic-vs-manual-cars-which-one-is-more-fuel-efficient/ https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/blog/automatic-vs-manual-car... https://www.car.co.uk/media/blogs/fuel-alternative-fuels/do-manual-or-automatic-cars-use-more-fuel https://www.car.co.uk/media/blogs/fuel-alternative-fuels/do-... https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/9kye2h/comment/e72qx6t/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/9kye2h/comment/e72qx6...
- briffle 3y ago
  Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band. In addtion, no heavy duty pickup comes with a manual anymore, but the ones that did years ago, de-tuned the engines in the manuals, so people didn't burn up the clutch. Modern Diesel Heavy Duty pickups only put their full 1000 ft/lbs to the wheels in 3rd gear or higher, something they can't enforce in a manual. Also, in most manuals (granted, its been a few years since I drove one) with turbos, pushing the clutch stats unspooling the turbo, where in most automatics, it does not. (since its knows your shifting, and not just coasting) Yes, these are all related to driver skill, and a skilled driver will not cause problems. But I wouldn't want to warranty the systems on an 'average' driver..
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > Modern pickups have 8-10 speed transmissions. They do a better job of keeping you in the power band. This is so true. As someone who owns a fairly modern truck (2019 F250) that missed the good transmission by a single year. My truck would dearly love to have at least one more gear between 2nd and 3rd when I'm going up the mountain. I end up having to choose between trying to keep my inertia high (tough with corners) or give up and let it drop down to 35-40 so that 2nd gear isn't trying to tear the engine off the mounts. I may end up putting in shorter differential gears to work around that. Don't really want to fork out for a new truck.
ghaff 3y ago
I assume the efficiency requirements are why my car doesn't provide a way to permanently turn off the auto idle start/stop. The button's to temporarily disable it is convenient enough to make it something of a reflex. But it's a feature I really don't like when I'm making an unprotected left hand turn for example.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  My wife's car has that; I find that if I stop and keep my foot very lightly on the brake, just enough to stop the car rolling, it doesn't shut the engine off. If I step more firmly on the brake while I'm stopped, it shuts the engine off. Also some of the diagnostic scanners will have a way to disable the auto stop/start, or so I've heard. I have a scanner but haven't tried it on her car.