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High BMI and high fasting glucose are a main risk factor, they write. Well what about reducing sugar and carbs altogether instead of promoting whole grains as t

High BMI and high fasting glucose are a main risk factor, they write. Well what about reducing sugar and carbs altogether instead of promoting whole grains as they do?

Enginerrrd 3y ago
Because whole grains have a lot of fiber and high dietary fiber intake has consistently been shown to be critical to several different health outcomes. And intake of whole grains specifically is also strongly linked to positive health outcomes while in most cases low carbohydrate diets of various sorts are not.
- hn8305823 3y ago
  A healthy diet is helpful of course but the most important thing is exercise. Not just casual going through the motions exercise but high intensity balls-to-the-wall exercise: https://www.verywellhealth.com/intense-exercise-capacity-cancer-risk-5073105 https://www.verywellhealth.com/intense-exercise-capacity-can... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/physical-activity-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/o... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201026114229.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201026114229.h... https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/metastatic-cancer-risk-reduced-by-72-percent-with-high-intensity-exercise https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/metastatic-cancer-... ... and so on
hombre_fatal 3y ago
Do people gain weight when they switch their SAD out with whole grains and carbs like legumes? I'd wager the evidence says no. Is that what the diet looks like in obese people? Frankly it sounds like exactly what obese people should be eating: swap out highly palatable foods with beans, broccoli, and bulgur.
rafaelero 3y ago
It would be dumb discouraging whole grains since they are clearly associated with decreased mortality. According to the paper: "Dietary risk factors (diet high in red meat, low in fruits, high in sodium and low in milk, etc), alcohol consumption and tobacco use are the main risk factors underlying early-onset cancers."
- chrisweekly 3y ago
  "low in milk" (as a risk factor) strikes me as an extraordinary claim
876978095789789 3y ago
> instead of promoting whole grains Telling people to eat fewer, not more, whole grains to prevent T2DM and cancer is peak HNism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5506108/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5506108/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.31198 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.31198 and high-fat, high-saturated fat diets actually make insulin sensitivity worse: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291812/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291812/
- astura 3y ago
  It's peak Reddit bro-science, it's just Reddit bro-science has leaked into HN last several years.
  - jamiek88 3y ago
    The Overton window of weird dietary approaches shifts too. It started with ‘Atkins’ which became lo carb when he was debunked, which became paleo ‘cos that is cooler for the bro’s then this got more extreme as a carnivore only diet and some of those weirdos have moved onto only raw meat. Every internet meme gets more and more extreme.
    - grecy 3y ago
      If we’re lucky the next one will be ‘No calories. Ever.’
      - shard 3y ago
        As promoted by Famine in the book 'Foodless Dieting: Slim Yourself Beautiful ("The Diet Book Of The Century!")' https://wiki.lspace.org/Famine_(Good_Omens) https://wiki.lspace.org/Famine_(Good_Omens)
      - talldatethrow 3y ago
        You might be kidding, but extended fasting, water fasting, and fasting while drinking salt/potassium water have millions of followers. I have personally tried fresh vegetable juice only for 30 days and I think it's amazing. I didn't even drink any actual water for 30 days, since I was drinking 1 gallon+ of vegetable juice a day (fresh juiced at home, not pasteurized garbage). I personally think the ideal diet would be vegetable juice plus some beef. Which is what most people would say ("hey, just eat a lot of salad and some meat sparingly"). Except it's way easier to drink 8 lbs of vegetables than it is to eat them.
mcpackieh 3y ago
For an individual to cut all grain and carbs out of their diet is relatively easy (whether that's actually a good idea is another matter.) For the whole population to do it? You'll need something to replace these for billions of people, ideally without causing mass starvation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food#Production Good luck.
scottLobster 3y ago
Because whole grains have fiber and other nutrients that makes them extremely healthy. No one is getting fat off of oatmeal with berries and raw oranges, they're getting fat off all the cinnamon-sugar they slather on top of the oatmeal and the glass of no-pulp orange juice with added sugar they have as a beverage. Also fast food and sodas.
- myrmidon 3y ago
  Just wanted to add: Neither "non-pulp" nor "added sugar" is the main problem with orange juice. The real problem becomes very obvious if you prepare the fruit juice yourself: The fruit needed to produce even a single glass of apple or orange juice (which is quite easy to drink/sip quickly) is a lot if you were to consume it raw (basically not doable, or at least I'm not gonna eat like 4 apples at once). Juicing fruit makes it much easier to overconsume fruit sugar.
  - kwhitefoot 3y ago
    > Juicing fruit makes it much easier to overconsume fruit sugar. It's worse than simply making it easier to consume large quantities of fruit. Even if you consume only the same amount of fruit as you would be willing to eat unprocessed juicing it makes the sugars more available so that you over consume even without appearing to consume a lot.
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    I made a rule to myself - no juices, pulp, no pulp, doesnt matter. Way too much simple carbs for it to be ever healthy. I can literally taste all the sweetness since I generally avoid sugars, even if I make it myself with all the pulp possible. Like that, I don't have any needs for those, no cravings or urges to pour glass ie when eating in hotel, in same way I have 0 craving for sugary/worse sodas. The thing is, most of the pulp stays in the juicing machine regardless. Thats why you don't drink solid apple, just juice from it. So I eat those fruits, but oranges almost never, apples more so. Vegetables are so much healthier, a good bio carrot is my friend #1 also due to better processing of sunshine in the skin. You can teach yourself almost anything with a smidge of discipline, but its much easier if your parents just dont fuck up your upbringing and don't make this and other junkfood into some idiotic rewards (or just don't care at all), so you just continue that trend into adulthood.
pastor_bob 3y ago
>Well what about reducing sugar and carbs altogether The summary says red meat and low-fruit diets (which obviously have carbs) increase the risk of cancer as much if not more. Why would they push for a keto diet if the evidence that it's beneficial is contradictory?

High BMI and high fasting glucose are a main risk factor, they write. Well what about reducing sugar and carbs altogether instead of promoting whole grains as they do?

Enginerrrd 3y ago

Because whole grains have a lot of fiber and high dietary fiber intake has consistently been shown to be critical to several different health outcomes. And intake of whole grains specifically is also strongly linked to positive health outcomes while in most cases low carbohydrate diets of various sorts are not.

hn8305823 3y ago
A healthy diet is helpful of course but the most important thing is exercise. Not just casual going through the motions exercise but high intensity balls-to-the-wall exercise: https://www.verywellhealth.com/intense-exercise-capacity-cancer-risk-5073105 https://www.verywellhealth.com/intense-exercise-capacity-can... https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/obesity/physical-activity-fact-sheet https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/o... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201026114229.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201026114229.h... https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/metastatic-cancer-risk-reduced-by-72-percent-with-high-intensity-exercise https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/metastatic-cancer-... ... and so on

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Do people gain weight when they switch their SAD out with whole grains and carbs like legumes? I'd wager the evidence says no. Is that what the diet looks like in obese people? Frankly it sounds like exactly what obese people should be eating: swap out highly palatable foods with beans, broccoli, and bulgur.

rafaelero 3y ago

It would be dumb discouraging whole grains since they are clearly associated with decreased mortality. According to the paper: "Dietary risk factors (diet high in red meat, low in fruits, high in sodium and low in milk, etc), alcohol consumption and tobacco use are the main risk factors underlying early-onset cancers."

chrisweekly 3y ago
"low in milk" (as a risk factor) strikes me as an extraordinary claim

876978095789789 3y ago

> instead of promoting whole grains Telling people to eat fewer, not more, whole grains to prevent T2DM and cancer is peak HNism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5506108/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5506108/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.31198 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.31198 and high-fat, high-saturated fat diets actually make insulin sensitivity worse: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291812/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291812/

astura 3y ago
It's peak Reddit bro-science, it's just Reddit bro-science has leaked into HN last several years.
- jamiek88 3y ago
  The Overton window of weird dietary approaches shifts too. It started with ‘Atkins’ which became lo carb when he was debunked, which became paleo ‘cos that is cooler for the bro’s then this got more extreme as a carnivore only diet and some of those weirdos have moved onto only raw meat. Every internet meme gets more and more extreme.
  - grecy 3y ago
    If we’re lucky the next one will be ‘No calories. Ever.’
    - shard 3y ago
      As promoted by Famine in the book 'Foodless Dieting: Slim Yourself Beautiful ("The Diet Book Of The Century!")' https://wiki.lspace.org/Famine_(Good_Omens) https://wiki.lspace.org/Famine_(Good_Omens)
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      You might be kidding, but extended fasting, water fasting, and fasting while drinking salt/potassium water have millions of followers. I have personally tried fresh vegetable juice only for 30 days and I think it's amazing. I didn't even drink any actual water for 30 days, since I was drinking 1 gallon+ of vegetable juice a day (fresh juiced at home, not pasteurized garbage). I personally think the ideal diet would be vegetable juice plus some beef. Which is what most people would say ("hey, just eat a lot of salad and some meat sparingly"). Except it's way easier to drink 8 lbs of vegetables than it is to eat them.

mcpackieh 3y ago

For an individual to cut all grain and carbs out of their diet is relatively easy (whether that's actually a good idea is another matter.) For the whole population to do it? You'll need something to replace these for billions of people, ideally without causing mass starvation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food#Production Good luck.

scottLobster 3y ago

Because whole grains have fiber and other nutrients that makes them extremely healthy. No one is getting fat off of oatmeal with berries and raw oranges, they're getting fat off all the cinnamon-sugar they slather on top of the oatmeal and the glass of no-pulp orange juice with added sugar they have as a beverage. Also fast food and sodas.

myrmidon 3y ago
Just wanted to add: Neither "non-pulp" nor "added sugar" is the main problem with orange juice. The real problem becomes very obvious if you prepare the fruit juice yourself: The fruit needed to produce even a single glass of apple or orange juice (which is quite easy to drink/sip quickly) is a lot if you were to consume it raw (basically not doable, or at least I'm not gonna eat like 4 apples at once). Juicing fruit makes it much easier to overconsume fruit sugar.
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > Juicing fruit makes it much easier to overconsume fruit sugar. It's worse than simply making it easier to consume large quantities of fruit. Even if you consume only the same amount of fruit as you would be willing to eat unprocessed juicing it makes the sugars more available so that you over consume even without appearing to consume a lot.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  I made a rule to myself - no juices, pulp, no pulp, doesnt matter. Way too much simple carbs for it to be ever healthy. I can literally taste all the sweetness since I generally avoid sugars, even if I make it myself with all the pulp possible. Like that, I don't have any needs for those, no cravings or urges to pour glass ie when eating in hotel, in same way I have 0 craving for sugary/worse sodas. The thing is, most of the pulp stays in the juicing machine regardless. Thats why you don't drink solid apple, just juice from it. So I eat those fruits, but oranges almost never, apples more so. Vegetables are so much healthier, a good bio carrot is my friend #1 also due to better processing of sunshine in the skin. You can teach yourself almost anything with a smidge of discipline, but its much easier if your parents just dont fuck up your upbringing and don't make this and other junkfood into some idiotic rewards (or just don't care at all), so you just continue that trend into adulthood.

pastor_bob 3y ago

>Well what about reducing sugar and carbs altogether The summary says red meat and low-fruit diets (which obviously have carbs) increase the risk of cancer as much if not more. Why would they push for a keto diet if the evidence that it's beneficial is contradictory?