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I've got a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee and I've been searching for where the sim card is for the built in cellular modem so I can rip it out. It astounds me that

• Sander_Marechal 3y ago
  There probably isn't a physical SIM card anymore. It probably just has an eSIM.
  • ben-schaaf 3y ago
    Just gotta break out the soldering iron then.
  • yardie 3y ago
    In 2018? I doubt car manufacturers can move that fast. Apple didn't implement eSIM until 2018 for the iPhone XS. No way an auto maker has it before consumer electronics maker.
    • glogla 3y ago
      Given the Wikipedia page about eSIM says: The European Commission selected the eUICC format for its in-vehicle emergency call service, known as eCall, in 2012.[23] All new car models in the EU must have one by 2018 to instantly connect the car to emergency services in case of an accident.[24] I'd say they have been around since then. edit: here is a great talk about how eSIMs work from last CCC https://media.ccc.de/v/camp2023-57190-demystifying_esim_technology https://media.ccc.de/v/camp2023-57190-demystifying_esim_tech...
      • yardie 3y ago
        For a very long time now you have never needed a SIM to call emergency services. Maybe it's different in the EU but US car models that include telematics (ie Onstar) have been able to call emergency services without a subscription.
      • codedokode 3y ago
        Shouldn't emergency services be accessible without a SIM? On the other hand, using a SIM allows government to track car's movement.
        • hedora 3y ago
          The cell modem has a separate unique identifier, so the government should be able to track sim-free devices.
• catchnear4321 3y ago
  overwhelm the brain with input. to hold onto threads like this one, you have to be fairly healthy or fairly mad. not strapping on tin foil hat, this likely isn’t some massive coordinated effort. it could be done “better.” this is just making the most of the situation. at scale. if you simplify the question, “Who wants to let their car manufacturer surveil them?” - the answer is also simple. very few hands are going to be raised. most people don’t get the tl;dr - they drown in the firehose. what isn’t out there is a friendly, accessible version of what you’re looking for - multi-manufacturer information on snipping the sensors, why and how, and what you lose in the exchange. if it is out there, it isn’t friendly enough to be readily found.
  • s3p 3y ago
    I'm not sure what you're suggesting here.
    • catchnear4321 3y ago
      people are tired, stretched thin, even in the most powerful nations. information access has become so ubiquitous that it has become more challenging to filter than to find. for many people, there are far more pressing concerns to address than if nissan knows how the back seat was used last night. they would need the time and space to slow down and consider the information, and likely have means to do something, for it to elicit a response. some people would love to have the issue, that would imply having means to get a new car. no, they wouldn’t love the issue, but it is out of reach, so it isn’t deemed worth the effort spent. right now it’s like saying your cell phone spies on you. most people won’t be getting rid of their phones. some might get foil bags. faraday cage around your car, on the other hand, isn’t happening.
      • ranger_danger 3y ago
        None of that matters when the info is either routinely sold to others with more time and motivation on their hands, or simply leaked to the public whether on purpose or not.
• vuln 3y ago
  It’s an eSim. Not a physical SIM card afaik.
  • monkpit 3y ago
    Do you have a source for this?
    • vuln 3y ago
      Google. I’ve searched and searched. I have a 2018 Truck from a different manufacturer and I completely went down the rabbit hole of attempting to remove it. It’s not possible. It’s an assumption that most manufacturers are following the same logic due to economy of scale.
• joezydeco 3y ago
  You'd probably have more success finding the external antenna and clipping the leads at the sharkfin.
  • b112 3y ago
    Just make sure you do something, like use a resistor to ground the antenna lead, because I did that, and would still get connectivity at times. EG if the cell tower was very close. Was fine after I used a resistor to turn that power into mild heat.
    • joezydeco 3y ago
      I wonder if one could build a metal cap, shape and color matched to the sharkfin, that goes over the antenna and couples to the roof of the car. Would that be enough to make a small Faraday cage over the antenna? Would leakage though the mounting hole still be enough to let a signal through?
      • r0b1n 3y ago
        You could maybe just stuff the inside of the sharkfin full of tinfoil.
      • ragnese 3y ago
        I've tried stuff like that before on other things and haven't been very successful. Those damn EM waves really like to find their way through.
      • brian-armstrong 3y ago
        I don't think you really need to get that sophisticated. If you unplug the antenna and send too much current down that antenna line, whatever's on the other side is not going to like it.
    • TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
      If it is similar to eCall in VAG ECUs, then there might be internal antenna inside the ECU itself.
• vorpalhex 3y ago
  There's often times a small cellular modem in the sharkfin on vehicles but I believe Jeeps still have whip antennas. Could use an SDR or emf reader. It'll take a while since you need to catch a cellular keep alive but otherwise should be fine.
• pgeorgi 3y ago
  > it wouldn't surprise me if the car refuses to operate correctly I know of a car (Renault in EU) whose SIM access is broken somehow that still works fine, just can't call home. No guarantee that every car will handle it gracefully, but at least some regions don't seem to mandate any enforcement if that module happens to "break".
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• throw3747874747 3y ago
  I am pretty sure that is (or soon will be) illegal in EU. Car needs to be able to call emergency, if accident is detected.
  • justinclift 3y ago
    "Oops, how did that happen..." ;)
    • throw3747874747 3y ago
      It is EURO5 or EURO6 emmision norm. It also handles firmware updates, reaction to Volkswagen cheating. Car needs to be online, check for latest firmware and all sort of nasty DRM. There is also a black box, that records position and speed. It may call emergency if it detects crash. If DRM is violated, car may refuse to start, or only drive like 50 kms. I don't have a source, but anyone should be able to find relevant articles.
      • PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        That's just creating a blackmarket for people that can crack the DRM without the car losing functionality.
  • loloquwowndueo 3y ago
    The manufacturer may have to legally include the functionality in cars they sell but in pretty sure the owner isn’t obligated to use or keep the functionality untouched. By comparison if your seat belts are all frayed and you don’t wear them anyway that’s on you, manufacturer sold you a car with seat belts in good condition and that as far as the “compliance” requirement goes.
    • tpmoney 3y ago
      Might depend on the wording of the law and how that system is tied into the rest of the car. For example in the states, it is illegal to tamper with any part of the emissions control system on your car. This is mostly about making sure emissions testing via OBD II can’t be gamed, but it also would target modifications like “rolling coal” or turbos and superchargers that allow user controlled fuel mapping. But in the crossfire it catches completely reasonable reasons to modify your emissions system like a flex fuel upgrade, or replacing the computer of your old car with an aftermarket one because the engine immobilizer unit died and they’re paired together and OEM computers and immobilizer kits are either too expensive or not obtainable anymore. Laws against tampering with vehicle safety devices would easily have a similar effect on your built in phone home systems.
• swader999 3y ago
  There's likely five Sims at various places and even 3d printed into the frame.
  • delecti 3y ago
    They're eSIM these days, so it's actually zero physical SIM cards.
• noman-land 3y ago
  Check out the manual, find where the fuse is for the cellular modem, and remove it.
  • orev 3y ago
    That’s quite a big assumption to think that it would be clearly labeled, and also that it would have a dedicated fuse. It’s not like that would be such a huge power draw that it needs its own fuse. Pulling the fuse would likely cause the whole infotainment system to go down.
    • noman-land 3y ago
      Reading back at my reply, I didn't mean it to sound so authoritative. Just an idea. I helped a friend do this a couple years ago in a fairly modern car. It most certainly was not clearly labeled, but there were clues that led us to try it out. It indeed disabled more than just the cellular modem but the goal was to disable all "smart" features altogether, along with anything that collects telemetry or phones home. After monitoring how it affected the car, the mild trade-offs were deemed worth it.
  • bityard 3y ago
    There's more than a fair chance that the modem is built into or fused along with the entertainment systems.
    • noman-land 3y ago
      There's also more than a fair chance it isn't :).
• mindslight 3y ago
  I feel like if this were happening 20 years ago, common wisdom would develop to buy from a list of model of cars where people had already blazed the path, directions of what the cell modem looks like and how to unplug it, prominent links to a community working on a libre replacement, and majority opinion of this is just what you should do to cope in the modern world. Now with the web community being so diffuse the majority opinion basically seems to be "whatevs". Perhaps if you dug into the right threads on the right manufacturer-specific forum you could find a thread or two with some investigation, but that's about it. It's also essentially impossible to navigate/compare the amenability of different makes to this. FWIW I've got no actual experience, but given the general slowness with which the car industry moves I would guess the cell modem is just a module hanging off one of the CAN buses, receiving telemetry broadcast by other modules and injecting/interrogating commands when requested (like modern OBD2 ports). I suppose it could also be part of something like the gauge cluster that links different buses as well (at least on Hondas) but with the modular way cars seem to work I'd guess it's not likely. I'd try to track down a copy of the factory service manual for your model. Those have seem to have gotten pretty thin these days too in favor of computer-based documentation, but it should at least help you work out how things are generally connected. (No point to the readily-available Haynes manual though. Those are apparently garbage)
• wil421 3y ago
  Removing the head unit and unplugging the “Bordeaux” and violet wire[1] may help and be easier to do. It’s the LTE and 3G antennae wire. I have a 2019 Grand Cherokee and I think we both have the updated head unit. Let me know if anything works. [1] https://www.jeepgarage.org/threads/uaq-antenna-connections.217097/ https://www.jeepgarage.org/threads/uaq-antenna-connections.2...
• grecy 3y ago
  My 2021 Wrangler has a very obvious antenna on top of the roll bar, very easy to unplug. (There's actually two - one for SIM stuff, and one for the XM Sat radio)