4 ms·

This reads like NSA Public Relations. Snowden was no whistleblower, NSA did some overcollection but anyway their mission is great and yeah some safeguards had

This reads like NSA Public Relations. Snowden was no whistleblower, NSA did some overcollection but anyway their mission is great and yeah some safeguards had to be improved. And Keith Alexander is a reliable source.

testcaseuser 3y ago
[flagged]
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Its the behavior of someone that doesn't want to go to prison in the US. There are literally only a handful of countries that are viable to avoiding that. Them being geopolitical opponents is exactly what they are countries that are viable to avoiding that. You are choosing to put the cart before the horse, that he went to geopolitical opponents to give secrets, and not that he was going to a handful of countries that would avoid prison in the US. and yes, I'm choosing to see it the other way, because his actions are more congruent with the other way. He was trying to go to a different country but could not reach it. The US intercepted flights they merely thought had him on it.
  - testcaseuser 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - harry8 3y ago
      He gave that data to american citizens in Hong Kong and retained no copy. Obama's people trapped him in transit in russia on his way to south america so that they could claim "russia! russia!" They openly bragged about this. It worked on both levels. He's stuck and people amazingly still claim he's in with the russians. It always surprises me how many people still come out with this totally discredited line that he gave secrets to china and russia. Are we done with the equally dishonest claim that he put lives in danger or is everyone across that being a total lie now. When I think of courage I think of Snowden speaking out against Putin while stuck in russia. When I think of cowardice I think of the lack of prosecution for all those spooks who are now paid by CNN to lie to the public. Who decided not to prosecute clapper? How? He's above the law. Why?
      - testcaseuser 3y ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c... How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie... That leak about NSA breaching Chinese servers was in the same time period that Chinese security services executed accused CIA informants with a gunshot to the head in front of their coworkers.
        fallingknife 3y ago
        Your objections here are like criticizing a homeowner for shooting a burglar with an unregistered gun. Yes, it's illegal, but nobody cares because there is a much more severe crime going on, and it's strange that you would focus on that.
        harry8 3y ago
        First one was not published by the journalists Snowden chose, whom he directed as to the kinds of things he wanted published and not. The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better. Your criticism is of the NYT. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowden-describes-russian-government-as-corrupt https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowd... And plenty more. How are your criticisms of the CIA, NSA and Dept of homeland security coming along? Or you are unable to criticise clapper, the cnn paid expert at this time.
        testcaseuser 3y ago
        Let's forget about publishing. He took a top secret document on NSA spying on China to Chinese territory and then on to Russia. The fact that the Times published them and not his preferred journalist is besides the point. The damage was already done when he took them to Chinese territory and then on to Russia.
    - f1refly 3y ago
      You mean the most sensitive government secrets that are about warrantless total surveillance of everyone on earth? The proof that the US government has lost all control over their spying apparatus? Where would be a sensitive place to take them instead in your opinion?
      - testcaseuser 3y ago
        No I mean things like this which he leaked which revealed NSA spying on the Chinese government. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c...
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        As the article we're commenting on makes very clear, Snowden had no such documents.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - DANmode 3y ago
      > Remember that cache of data that was so damaging to the US that it would only be released if he was harmed? I do not. Source?
    - BeFlatXIII 3y ago
      What is it about Snowden discussions that brings out all the moral grandstanders and internet tough guys?
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        Maybe it's because of Snowden's moral grandstanding over leaking only a single extant US program that could possibly have been illegal (telephone metadata collection) and hundreds of others that very clearly weren't. People have every right to be disgusted with him.
        BeFlatXIII 3y ago
        Not illegal is not the same as nor morally wrong.
- Tao3300 3y ago
  > His behavior isn't what a whistleblower does. You need to explain this. Why should a whistleblower have to go to prison? Don't deflect with whataboutisms.
  - testcaseuser 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - InvaderFizz 3y ago
      This is a rather strange take. In 2013, Hong Kong was a very different place than today, with none of the China stigma. Additionally, you neglect to mention that is was the US actions in cancelling his passport that stranded Snowden in the Moscow airport that he was transiting through on the way to Ecuador.
      - testcaseuser 3y ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-have-made-call-to-let-leaker-depart.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-... " The Chinese government made the final decision to allow Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, a move that Beijing believed resolved a tough diplomatic problem even as it reaped a publicity windfall from Mr. Snowden’s disclosures, according to people familiar with the situation."
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        If you believe Russia cares about Snowden's travel documents, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Snowden should consider himself lucky that he got detained in Russia because Moreno would have given him up before Assange.
    - jklinger410 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lern_too_spel 3y ago
[flagged]

testcaseuser 3y ago

[flagged]

yieldcrv 3y ago
Its the behavior of someone that doesn't want to go to prison in the US. There are literally only a handful of countries that are viable to avoiding that. Them being geopolitical opponents is exactly what they are countries that are viable to avoiding that. You are choosing to put the cart before the horse, that he went to geopolitical opponents to give secrets, and not that he was going to a handful of countries that would avoid prison in the US. and yes, I'm choosing to see it the other way, because his actions are more congruent with the other way. He was trying to go to a different country but could not reach it. The US intercepted flights they merely thought had him on it.
- testcaseuser 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - harry8 3y ago
    He gave that data to american citizens in Hong Kong and retained no copy. Obama's people trapped him in transit in russia on his way to south america so that they could claim "russia! russia!" They openly bragged about this. It worked on both levels. He's stuck and people amazingly still claim he's in with the russians. It always surprises me how many people still come out with this totally discredited line that he gave secrets to china and russia. Are we done with the equally dishonest claim that he put lives in danger or is everyone across that being a total lie now. When I think of courage I think of Snowden speaking out against Putin while stuck in russia. When I think of cowardice I think of the lack of prosecution for all those spooks who are now paid by CNN to lie to the public. Who decided not to prosecute clapper? How? He's above the law. Why?
    - testcaseuser 3y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c... How is this whistleblowing? He also participated in Putin's call in propaganda show, I don't believe for a second that he's said anything that upsets Putin or the FSB particularly if mild criticism is useful for them in maintaining the fiction that he is not under the control of the Russian security services. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spies-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/20/world/asia/china-cia-spie... That leak about NSA breaching Chinese servers was in the same time period that Chinese security services executed accused CIA informants with a gunshot to the head in front of their coworkers.
      - fallingknife 3y ago
        Your objections here are like criticizing a homeowner for shooting a burglar with an unregistered gun. Yes, it's illegal, but nobody cares because there is a much more severe crime going on, and it's strange that you would focus on that.
      - harry8 3y ago
        First one was not published by the journalists Snowden chose, whom he directed as to the kinds of things he wanted published and not. The NYT got the archive from the guardian against Snowden's wishes and knew better. Your criticism is of the NYT. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowden-describes-russian-government-as-corrupt https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowd... And plenty more. How are your criticisms of the CIA, NSA and Dept of homeland security coming along? Or you are unable to criticise clapper, the cnn paid expert at this time.
        testcaseuser 3y ago
        Let's forget about publishing. He took a top secret document on NSA spying on China to Chinese territory and then on to Russia. The fact that the Times published them and not his preferred journalist is besides the point. The damage was already done when he took them to Chinese territory and then on to Russia.
  - f1refly 3y ago
    You mean the most sensitive government secrets that are about warrantless total surveillance of everyone on earth? The proof that the US government has lost all control over their spying apparatus? Where would be a sensitive place to take them instead in your opinion?
    - testcaseuser 3y ago
      No I mean things like this which he leaked which revealed NSA spying on the Chinese government. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-c...
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      As the article we're commenting on makes very clear, Snowden had no such documents.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - DANmode 3y ago
    > Remember that cache of data that was so damaging to the US that it would only be released if he was harmed? I do not. Source?
  - BeFlatXIII 3y ago
    What is it about Snowden discussions that brings out all the moral grandstanders and internet tough guys?
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      Maybe it's because of Snowden's moral grandstanding over leaking only a single extant US program that could possibly have been illegal (telephone metadata collection) and hundreds of others that very clearly weren't. People have every right to be disgusted with him.
      - BeFlatXIII 3y ago
        Not illegal is not the same as nor morally wrong.
Tao3300 3y ago
> His behavior isn't what a whistleblower does. You need to explain this. Why should a whistleblower have to go to prison? Don't deflect with whataboutisms.
- testcaseuser 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - InvaderFizz 3y ago
    This is a rather strange take. In 2013, Hong Kong was a very different place than today, with none of the China stigma. Additionally, you neglect to mention that is was the US actions in cancelling his passport that stranded Snowden in the Moscow airport that he was transiting through on the way to Ecuador.
    - testcaseuser 3y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-have-made-call-to-let-leaker-depart.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/asia/china-said-to-... " The Chinese government made the final decision to allow Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, a move that Beijing believed resolved a tough diplomatic problem even as it reaped a publicity windfall from Mr. Snowden’s disclosures, according to people familiar with the situation."
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      If you believe Russia cares about Snowden's travel documents, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Snowden should consider himself lucky that he got detained in Russia because Moreno would have given him up before Assange.
  - jklinger410 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lern_too_spel 3y ago

[flagged]