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What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is somethin

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

crdrost 3y ago
Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation of some knowledge K where "oh now everyone knows K, how silly everyone was before they knew K." K=neuroplasticity is an emerging case of this phenomenon for the more recent history, I think the strength of the evidence is high there. HN has also entertained in its top ranking some articles from Slime Mold Time Mold hypothesizing a K="what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" -- that would be a potential modern example, although I don't think that blog makes a very good case for it. (Lustig makes a better case on this front for K="our modern Western diet removes liver protection and starves our gut microbiomes" and I think you could make an even better case that K="the dangers of chronic low-level whole-body inflammation", with Lustig only gesturing at one part of that broader problem maybe?) A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe they would now fix Y and then they wouldn't and then Z and they wouldn't and and and... straight faced rationalist businesspeople acting like 'Tech-Jesus is coming' on August 1st, oh sorry it's September 1st, sorry -- October 1st? November? Maybe in the coming year? well SURELY this decade."
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  Mental health care is still in the dark ages and the medicine we have are mostly crappy. I just got off SSRIs - the most prescribed mental health medication. It messes with your whole body since serotonin has hundreds of different uses in the body. And we don’t know why it works! It’s basically bloodletting or eating the village healers herbs
  - throw__away7391 3y ago
    Indeed, I've seen multiple people end up with their lives completely and utterly detailed, as well as wrecking their family and fiends (yours truly included) and a result of such prescriptions. I don't understand how this goes totally ignored by the public at large.
    - pjc50 3y ago
      SSRIs and other anti-depression medication are a lottery. There often isn't a good rationale for picking one over another. Many people get great benefits; some people have to go through trying several drugs to get benefits; a few get dramatically bad side effects.
      - staticautomatic 3y ago
        There’s genetic testing now that can help us avoid some of these problems.
    - ffjdkdbsl 3y ago
      Same here. SSRI -> different SSRI -> benzos -> antipsychotics. With some overlap. Finally off of everything and it was fucking brutal. My life is a pale shadow of what it used to be. Relationships and finances burned to the ground. Engaging with the mental healthcare system was one of the worst decisions of my life.
- saghm 3y ago
  > A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe they would now fix Y and then they wouldn't and then Z and they wouldn't and and and... straight faced rationalist businesspeople acting like 'Tech-Jesus is coming' on August 1st, oh sorry it's September 1st, sorry -- October 1st? November? Maybe in the coming year? well SURELY this decade." This might be a higher-level thing that you mean given that I'm not sure it's something "provable" or "disprovable", but I'm constantly amazed how incredulous people are that I don't expect any car to be fully self-driving (like in the sense that there wouldn't even need to be a steering wheel and someone without a license could ride in it alone) any time in the next few decades. To be clear, I'm not claiming that it's something that _definitely_ won't happen, but I don't think it's super likely, whereas the vast majority of people I share this opinion with (even people with similarly high levels of technical expertise) seem to think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that this will be solved within maybe 30 years.
froh 3y ago
it's horrible,yes. in a similar vein sending your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of pastors for being LGBT+ is something still a thing in some.circles. it's beyond me how such doctors and pastors did and do get away with that inhuman cruel "advice"

crdrost 3y ago

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation of some knowledge K where "oh now everyone knows K, how silly everyone was before they knew K." K=neuroplasticity is an emerging case of this phenomenon for the more recent history, I think the strength of the evidence is high there. HN has also entertained in its top ranking some articles from Slime Mold Time Mold hypothesizing a K="what if the obesity epidemic has nothing to do with calories in vs calories out, and actually there is some toxin which the body has to sequester in subcutaneous fat and that's why everyone's getting obese" -- that would be a potential modern example, although I don't think that blog makes a very good case for it. (Lustig makes a better case on this front for K="our modern Western diet removes liver protection and starves our gut microbiomes" and I think you could make an even better case that K="the dangers of chronic low-level whole-body inflammation", with Lustig only gesturing at one part of that broader problem maybe?) A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe they would now fix Y and then they wouldn't and then Z and they wouldn't and and and... straight faced rationalist businesspeople acting like 'Tech-Jesus is coming' on August 1st, oh sorry it's September 1st, sorry -- October 1st? November? Maybe in the coming year? well SURELY this decade."

coffeebeqn 3y ago
Mental health care is still in the dark ages and the medicine we have are mostly crappy. I just got off SSRIs - the most prescribed mental health medication. It messes with your whole body since serotonin has hundreds of different uses in the body. And we don’t know why it works! It’s basically bloodletting or eating the village healers herbs
- throw__away7391 3y ago
  Indeed, I've seen multiple people end up with their lives completely and utterly detailed, as well as wrecking their family and fiends (yours truly included) and a result of such prescriptions. I don't understand how this goes totally ignored by the public at large.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    SSRIs and other anti-depression medication are a lottery. There often isn't a good rationale for picking one over another. Many people get great benefits; some people have to go through trying several drugs to get benefits; a few get dramatically bad side effects.
    - staticautomatic 3y ago
      There’s genetic testing now that can help us avoid some of these problems.
  - ffjdkdbsl 3y ago
    Same here. SSRI -> different SSRI -> benzos -> antipsychotics. With some overlap. Finally off of everything and it was fucking brutal. My life is a pale shadow of what it used to be. Relationships and finances burned to the ground. Engaging with the mental healthcare system was one of the worst decisions of my life.
saghm 3y ago
> A major theoretical discovery of K="computers can't do XYZ" would be another such thing for all of us who in the modern world chase these fads about computers reinventing finance or art or the modern economy. You'd have people in the year 2100 saying "can you believe only 75 years ago, everyone would just believe that computers were magically going to fix X and then they wouldn't and everyone would suddenly believe they would now fix Y and then they wouldn't and then Z and they wouldn't and and and... straight faced rationalist businesspeople acting like 'Tech-Jesus is coming' on August 1st, oh sorry it's September 1st, sorry -- October 1st? November? Maybe in the coming year? well SURELY this decade." This might be a higher-level thing that you mean given that I'm not sure it's something "provable" or "disprovable", but I'm constantly amazed how incredulous people are that I don't expect any car to be fully self-driving (like in the sense that there wouldn't even need to be a steering wheel and someone without a license could ride in it alone) any time in the next few decades. To be clear, I'm not claiming that it's something that _definitely_ won't happen, but I don't think it's super likely, whereas the vast majority of people I share this opinion with (even people with similarly high levels of technical expertise) seem to think that it's almost a foregone conclusion that this will be solved within maybe 30 years.

froh 3y ago

it's horrible,yes. in a similar vein sending your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of pastors for being LGBT+ is something still a thing in some.circles. it's beyond me how such doctors and pastors did and do get away with that inhuman cruel "advice"