4 ms·

There is a worthy discussion somewhere in here, but as written this is just flamebait, and got a predictable response from others. Please spend some time readi

There is a worthy discussion somewhere in here, but as written this is just flamebait, and got a predictable response from others. Please spend some time reading the HN commenting guidelines - there are a few about divisive topics and flamebait which are relevant to this comment.

waihtis 3y ago
How? The modern narrative for a majority of people is that it is impossible for them to progress in life because they're held back by "invisible forces", like racism, lack of education or other similar issues. Al-Fayed is in stark contrast to all these. At the time of posting, 40% of the comments on the article were pointing to a Guardian hit piece basically trashing the man's legacy.
- wtfwhateven 3y ago
  "Trashing the man's legacy" - all they did was tell the truth in how he got started, not the false narrative that you seem to be pushing.
  - waihtis 3y ago
    Literally just quoting the article which this HN post is based on. It's advisable to read the article you're trying to refute
    - wtfwhateven 3y ago
      Did you reply to the wrong comment? I wasn't quoting from the article posted - I can't see where you quoted from OP's posted article - so I'm not sure what you mean. All I see is you referring to the guardian article as a "hit piece". The other commenters are merely presenting the rest of the facts about him - I don't know why you're uncomfortable with this. Anyway, please read the commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - waihtis 3y ago
        From: https://www.arabnews.com/node/2366256/world https://www.arabnews.com/node/2366256/world (article linked to this submission) "He began his life as a porter — carrying bags and selling soft drinks and, later, sewing machines — in Egypt’s bustling Alexandria ..." So I didn't "invent it", it's a direct quote from the article. Whether you judge the Guardian as a more reputable source of information than arabnews.com, that is your personal preference. (also note: news are not facts, they are interpretations of events written by laymen on a salary and a time constrain)
        wtfwhateven 3y ago
        That wasn't the narrative I was referring to, and wasn't what I was questioning. I meant your apparent insistence that he was flawless and that any assertion of the contrary is "trashing his legacy".
        waihtis 3y ago
        In a sea of dispute, let the claim "no one is flawless" be our island of agreement
- arp242 3y ago
  - Al-Fayed started out over 60 years ago, in the late 50s and 60s, with a very different world than what we have today. - These kind of "narratives" are about averages, and there's always exceptions. This is really just a variant of the ol' "my uncle chain-smoked his entire life and lived to be 89 therefore smoking isn't harmful!", "it was chilly this winter in Chicago therefore climate change is a hoax!", and similar non-arguments. For these reasons I feel that any conclusion derived from Al-Fayed's life – positive or negative – are invalid. It doesn't prove "you can only become rich by being a crook" but also doesn't prove "anyone can get ahead with enough skills". It's a single data point, nothing more. As for "trashing the man's legacy", Al-Fayed didn't exactly beat around the bush when it came to other people. I'm reminded by a Christopher Hitchens quote, which goes something like "I don't expect any kindness after my death, because I'm not dishing out any", or something along those lines.

waihtis 3y ago

How? The modern narrative for a majority of people is that it is impossible for them to progress in life because they're held back by "invisible forces", like racism, lack of education or other similar issues. Al-Fayed is in stark contrast to all these. At the time of posting, 40% of the comments on the article were pointing to a Guardian hit piece basically trashing the man's legacy.

wtfwhateven 3y ago
"Trashing the man's legacy" - all they did was tell the truth in how he got started, not the false narrative that you seem to be pushing.
- waihtis 3y ago
  Literally just quoting the article which this HN post is based on. It's advisable to read the article you're trying to refute
  - wtfwhateven 3y ago
    Did you reply to the wrong comment? I wasn't quoting from the article posted - I can't see where you quoted from OP's posted article - so I'm not sure what you mean. All I see is you referring to the guardian article as a "hit piece". The other commenters are merely presenting the rest of the facts about him - I don't know why you're uncomfortable with this. Anyway, please read the commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - waihtis 3y ago
      From: https://www.arabnews.com/node/2366256/world https://www.arabnews.com/node/2366256/world (article linked to this submission) "He began his life as a porter — carrying bags and selling soft drinks and, later, sewing machines — in Egypt’s bustling Alexandria ..." So I didn't "invent it", it's a direct quote from the article. Whether you judge the Guardian as a more reputable source of information than arabnews.com, that is your personal preference. (also note: news are not facts, they are interpretations of events written by laymen on a salary and a time constrain)
      - wtfwhateven 3y ago
        That wasn't the narrative I was referring to, and wasn't what I was questioning. I meant your apparent insistence that he was flawless and that any assertion of the contrary is "trashing his legacy".
        waihtis 3y ago
        In a sea of dispute, let the claim "no one is flawless" be our island of agreement
arp242 3y ago
- Al-Fayed started out over 60 years ago, in the late 50s and 60s, with a very different world than what we have today. - These kind of "narratives" are about averages, and there's always exceptions. This is really just a variant of the ol' "my uncle chain-smoked his entire life and lived to be 89 therefore smoking isn't harmful!", "it was chilly this winter in Chicago therefore climate change is a hoax!", and similar non-arguments. For these reasons I feel that any conclusion derived from Al-Fayed's life – positive or negative – are invalid. It doesn't prove "you can only become rich by being a crook" but also doesn't prove "anyone can get ahead with enough skills". It's a single data point, nothing more. As for "trashing the man's legacy", Al-Fayed didn't exactly beat around the bush when it came to other people. I'm reminded by a Christopher Hitchens quote, which goes something like "I don't expect any kindness after my death, because I'm not dishing out any", or something along those lines.