5 ms·

Very good movie. I'd also recommend Syntropic Agriculture, an agroforestry method pioneered by Ernst Gotsch. He personally reforested 500 hectares of degraded

by myshpa 3y ago

Very good movie. I'd also recommend Syntropic Agriculture, an agroforestry method pioneered by Ernst Gotsch. He personally reforested 500 hectares of degraded pastures and doesn't use any external resources such as pesticides and fertilizers. Instead, he employs methods like maximizing photosynthesis and selective pruning. As a result, his land now stands as one of the most fertile and biodiverse regions within the Atlantic rainforest, achieving even higher yields than traditional farms. As syntropic farmers often say, they grow the soil to grow the food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPNRu4ZPvE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPNRu4ZPvE https://agendagotsch.com/en/what-is-syntropic-farming/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/what-is-syntropic-farming/ Another example would be the Natural Farming method pioneered by Masanobu Fukuoka. He also practices farming without the use of pesticides and herbicides, and his yields also surpass those of traditional farms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzs8iFGNdBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzs8iFGNdBo

cnity 3y ago
If the yield is better, why don't more do it? Is it just because it takes more skill, basically? In other words, what are the economic incentives working against adopting this farming method? I'm very interested because this type of farming sounds wonderful to me.
- helpfulContrib 3y ago
  It takes attention and skill and involvement. And I think the point where more will do it, is at the border and fence-line. Once a neighbor starts growing a food forest, that idea can rapidly spread. It does take years, though...
  - spiderfarmer 3y ago
    It has nothing to do with attention or skill. Food forests are simply bad businesses. If they weren't, we would see adoption pretty quickly. Idealism only takes you so far, in the end people need to make a living.
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      I'm always surprised that people think farming isn't like any other industry in capitalism. They will aim to make as much profit with resources they have available. If doing farming differently would certainly net more, they would do it. So I take there is some component that is forgotten. Be it scaling, labour input or available market for higher priced products.
      - spiderfarmer 3y ago
        In a lot of countries people still think farmers are stupid. Because of that a lot people think that even amateurs can do a better job, as long as they are not a traditional farmer.
        myshpa 3y ago
        Ernst Gotsch and Masanobu Fukuoka are not amateurs ... they both have been farming for decades.
        Lutger 3y ago
        Are you saying people like Shepard, Fukuoka and Götsch are amateurs? Do you even know who these people are?
        lowkeyoptimist 3y ago
        They said nothing of the sort. People in here are passing this method of farming off as a settled fact that it is better, when even Gotsch says it is still experimental and admits using fertilizer would boost yields of wheat, soy, and maize. Dropping yields of some of these key crops in the world's calorie consumption nearly 30% would be devastating to countries that depend on imports. https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-results-and-challenges/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-re... World's most important sources of calories: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-important-staple-foods-in-the-world.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-important-staple-fo...
      - 3y ago
  - cnity 3y ago
    Based on what I've seen in cities, something tells me that many of the neighbours will complain of pests and get regulators involved to prevent the food forest approach. I'd like to see otherwise though.
- mark_up 3y ago
  [dead]
- myshpa 3y ago
  It requires a change in attitude and is more knowledge-intensive. Additionally, it probably requires more labor initially, although that decreases as the soil improves. https://www.echocommunity.org/resources/ae1d762e-d561-4a7e-80b3-de9ddeaa6259 https://www.echocommunity.org/resources/ae1d762e-d561-4a7e-8... The promises of syntropic farming are many: large yields; multiple income streams; optimal use of land; no need for external inputs; improved soil quality; minimal weeding; plant resilience due to biodiversity; and better water management, both in extreme wet and dry times. Gietzen tells the story of Götsch’s cacao farm, showing that an established syntropic system can sustain high productivity with a level of labor that is comparable to that needed to manage a conventional farm. However, syntropic farming can be complicated to understand and apply. It requires in-depth knowledge of biological processes, access to many different kinds of seeds, and careful management. https://news.mongabay.com/2020/07/in-syntropic-agriculture-farmers-stop-fighting-nature-and-learn-to-embrace-it/ https://news.mongabay.com/2020/07/in-syntropic-agriculture-f... He refused to use artificial fertilizers and pesticides. He let most of the land grow naturally, and on 12 hectares (30 acres) he planted bananas and cocoa, cutting back the surrounding trees regularly. Today, he harvests an average 920 kgs (2,000 lb) of cocoa beans per hectare, more than three times the average across Brazil of 300 kg (660 lb) per hectare. And because he doesn’t spend money on fertilizers and pesticides, unlike the farmers around him, Götsch enjoys higher profits. ... Then a drought hit the region. But not on Götsch’s farm. The dense vegetation of the 120 hectares locally created a lot of evaporation and the rain continued to fall. His success as a “rainmaker” finally earned Götsch the respect of his neighbors. They started to imitate him. Today, the forested area in the surroundings spans 1,000 hectares (2,500 acres). “When you fly over my finca now, you can’t see it anymore, because it is covered by clouds all year round,” Götsch says proudly. https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-results-and-challenges/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-re...
- Lutger 3y ago
  A lot of these methods aren't easy to scale (yet) and depend on the outstanding expertise of individuals. There are also various incentives and circumstances that work against it, depending on the country where you live: - you can't get loans from the bank because its not a proven method (applies to food forests or other types of agroforestry, not to organic farming anymore) - you need some time investment to get the operation profitable, can be as much as ten years for a food forest - regulations may prevent you from acquiring land, simply because the method isn't known - you may not get subsidy and / or tax cuts because you have a different system or produce different crops - the crops you produce may not always get the best prize on the market - you simply aren't profiting from externalized costs, hence you are less competitive An example of the last point: to support our meat and dairy industry, the Netherlands imports cheap soy from Brazil, which is produced by destroying millions of hectares of rainforest. This is a bit like fossil fuels (also used a lot in agriculture): it isn't sustainable and it is taking advantage of cheap labor and destroying natural resources elsewhere. If you want to produce meat or dairy in a sustainable way in the Netherlands without taking a toll on the Amazonian Rainforest, you will need a lot of land which is very expensive, and therefore you aren't competitive anymore.
goda90 3y ago
Another interesting one is Mark Shepard's "STUN" approach https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg
alisson 3y ago
I've been doing syntropic agriculture for over 7 years now. Ernst is no doubt a great teacher! But I would be careful with claiming it has better yields, it really depends on how you are measuring it, you might get better yields per plant, but not per square meter if counting only 1 crop, but since you have multiple crops in the same space (separated by time) the yields are better in general. Its beautiful to see a coffee plantation where the trees got pruned right before the coffee flowers, that makes the best harvest per plant no doubt. The best bigger scale syntropic system I know so far is Mata do Lobo https://instagram.com/matadolobo https://instagram.com/matadolobo they are really mechanizing a lot of those processes are really digging into the soil ecosystem, its worth checking them out.

by myshpa 3y ago

cnity 3y ago

If the yield is better, why don't more do it? Is it just because it takes more skill, basically? In other words, what are the economic incentives working against adopting this farming method? I'm very interested because this type of farming sounds wonderful to me.

helpfulContrib 3y ago
It takes attention and skill and involvement. And I think the point where more will do it, is at the border and fence-line. Once a neighbor starts growing a food forest, that idea can rapidly spread. It does take years, though...
- spiderfarmer 3y ago
  It has nothing to do with attention or skill. Food forests are simply bad businesses. If they weren't, we would see adoption pretty quickly. Idealism only takes you so far, in the end people need to make a living.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    I'm always surprised that people think farming isn't like any other industry in capitalism. They will aim to make as much profit with resources they have available. If doing farming differently would certainly net more, they would do it. So I take there is some component that is forgotten. Be it scaling, labour input or available market for higher priced products.
    - spiderfarmer 3y ago
      In a lot of countries people still think farmers are stupid. Because of that a lot people think that even amateurs can do a better job, as long as they are not a traditional farmer.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        Ernst Gotsch and Masanobu Fukuoka are not amateurs ... they both have been farming for decades.
      - Lutger 3y ago
        Are you saying people like Shepard, Fukuoka and Götsch are amateurs? Do you even know who these people are?
        lowkeyoptimist 3y ago
        They said nothing of the sort. People in here are passing this method of farming off as a settled fact that it is better, when even Gotsch says it is still experimental and admits using fertilizer would boost yields of wheat, soy, and maize. Dropping yields of some of these key crops in the world's calorie consumption nearly 30% would be devastating to countries that depend on imports. https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-results-and-challenges/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-re... World's most important sources of calories: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-important-staple-foods-in-the-world.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-important-staple-fo...
    - 3y ago
- cnity 3y ago
  Based on what I've seen in cities, something tells me that many of the neighbours will complain of pests and get regulators involved to prevent the food forest approach. I'd like to see otherwise though.
mark_up 3y ago
[dead]
myshpa 3y ago
It requires a change in attitude and is more knowledge-intensive. Additionally, it probably requires more labor initially, although that decreases as the soil improves. https://www.echocommunity.org/resources/ae1d762e-d561-4a7e-80b3-de9ddeaa6259 https://www.echocommunity.org/resources/ae1d762e-d561-4a7e-8... The promises of syntropic farming are many: large yields; multiple income streams; optimal use of land; no need for external inputs; improved soil quality; minimal weeding; plant resilience due to biodiversity; and better water management, both in extreme wet and dry times. Gietzen tells the story of Götsch’s cacao farm, showing that an established syntropic system can sustain high productivity with a level of labor that is comparable to that needed to manage a conventional farm. However, syntropic farming can be complicated to understand and apply. It requires in-depth knowledge of biological processes, access to many different kinds of seeds, and careful management. https://news.mongabay.com/2020/07/in-syntropic-agriculture-farmers-stop-fighting-nature-and-learn-to-embrace-it/ https://news.mongabay.com/2020/07/in-syntropic-agriculture-f... He refused to use artificial fertilizers and pesticides. He let most of the land grow naturally, and on 12 hectares (30 acres) he planted bananas and cocoa, cutting back the surrounding trees regularly. Today, he harvests an average 920 kgs (2,000 lb) of cocoa beans per hectare, more than three times the average across Brazil of 300 kg (660 lb) per hectare. And because he doesn’t spend money on fertilizers and pesticides, unlike the farmers around him, Götsch enjoys higher profits. ... Then a drought hit the region. But not on Götsch’s farm. The dense vegetation of the 120 hectares locally created a lot of evaporation and the rain continued to fall. His success as a “rainmaker” finally earned Götsch the respect of his neighbors. They started to imitate him. Today, the forested area in the surroundings spans 1,000 hectares (2,500 acres). “When you fly over my finca now, you can’t see it anymore, because it is covered by clouds all year round,” Götsch says proudly. https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-results-and-challenges/ https://agendagotsch.com/en/large-scale-syntropic-farming-re...
Lutger 3y ago
A lot of these methods aren't easy to scale (yet) and depend on the outstanding expertise of individuals. There are also various incentives and circumstances that work against it, depending on the country where you live: - you can't get loans from the bank because its not a proven method (applies to food forests or other types of agroforestry, not to organic farming anymore) - you need some time investment to get the operation profitable, can be as much as ten years for a food forest - regulations may prevent you from acquiring land, simply because the method isn't known - you may not get subsidy and / or tax cuts because you have a different system or produce different crops - the crops you produce may not always get the best prize on the market - you simply aren't profiting from externalized costs, hence you are less competitive An example of the last point: to support our meat and dairy industry, the Netherlands imports cheap soy from Brazil, which is produced by destroying millions of hectares of rainforest. This is a bit like fossil fuels (also used a lot in agriculture): it isn't sustainable and it is taking advantage of cheap labor and destroying natural resources elsewhere. If you want to produce meat or dairy in a sustainable way in the Netherlands without taking a toll on the Amazonian Rainforest, you will need a lot of land which is very expensive, and therefore you aren't competitive anymore.

goda90 3y ago

Another interesting one is Mark Shepard's "STUN" approach https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RePJ3rJa1Wg

alisson 3y ago

I've been doing syntropic agriculture for over 7 years now. Ernst is no doubt a great teacher! But I would be careful with claiming it has better yields, it really depends on how you are measuring it, you might get better yields per plant, but not per square meter if counting only 1 crop, but since you have multiple crops in the same space (separated by time) the yields are better in general. Its beautiful to see a coffee plantation where the trees got pruned right before the coffee flowers, that makes the best harvest per plant no doubt. The best bigger scale syntropic system I know so far is Mata do Lobo https://instagram.com/matadolobo https://instagram.com/matadolobo they are really mechanizing a lot of those processes are really digging into the soil ecosystem, its worth checking them out.