3 ms·

Ask HN: German company didn't pay me for two months

29 points by kiraken 3y ago

I worked for a German company that didn't pay me for 5 months, during that period payment was always late, then it didn't come for two months then I was let go, which was good for me since I was going to quit anyways and if they fire me I get a three weeks severance, but after they let me go, they emailed that they will pay me then cut contact for the last month with 0 news. I'm not based in Germany or Europe so suing is a bit hard, which they know and are ignoring me probably for that reason. I am now trying to reachout to lawyers and see if I can start a case against them, but I'm wondering if I should contact their investors to put pressure on them, or share my story publicly on their social media. I honesty don't know what the best course of action is in this case since I never had this happen to me in my whole career. Any advice?

keikobadthebad 3y ago
Check your contract, it will usually say disputes have to be performed in Germany. It just doesn't sound like there's enough money at stake to pay german lawyers, manage the case and come out ahead even if they pay. You can try a place like this (just a result of a quick google, no idea about them) https://www.bierensgroup.com/en-gb/debt-collection-germany/ https://www.bierensgroup.com/en-gb/debt-collection-germany/ Getting chased up in german, from germany, in the correct form might panic them into paying.
sjducb 3y ago
I’m not in Germany but as it’s in the EU I would contact a German employment lawyer. Write a short summary of the events, detailing what they should have paid you, when they should pay it, what they did pay you, when they paid it, and how much they still owe you. Also include a copy of your contract. Use bullet points and make it as easy to read as possible. Imagine you’re asking a stack overflow question. Probably the lawyer will give you a free initial consultation where they tell you the next free steps. Maybe the lawyer will charge you a few hundred euros to send a letter before action. If the company doesn’t pay, and is still solvent then the lawyer might recommend taking them to court as the company will have to pay the lawyers fees if you win the case. It’s likely your case is open and shut and it’ll never go anywhere near court.
patwoz 3y ago
I had the same problem long time ago and I contacted a lawyer. He suggested that I write a letter in which I give the company 2 weeks to transfer the money with the threat of calling a lawyer if it is not transferred. And only then get an lawyer. The company transferred the money and the problem was solved in my case.
ThePhysicist 3y ago
I assume if you're based outside of EU you were paid as a contractor? In that case you can start a legal dunning process (gerichtliches Mahnverfahren), that's actually surprisingly easy to start, most municipalities provide it as an online service. The court will ask you to provide some proof of the unpaid services you provided and send a court order to the company, most companies crater after that and pay. Once you have an enforcement order (Vollstreckungstitel) you can start the debt enforcement process (Zwangsvollstreckung), an official court agent will seek to retrieve the debt from the company then, going as far as seizing office assets and even cash in the founders pockets (it can be quite humiliating). As I said, it's a surprisingly easy process to get started and it's really intimidating to most companies as any legal action might lead to being publicly documented and tainting the credit score of the company, it can even lead to court ordered bankruptcy filing. If you were actually employed you need to take the company to the labour court (Lohnklage), given how difficult it is to employ someone who's residing outside of the EU I imagine this to be even scarier for the company, so they should be very willing to settle their debt with you. Again, the key point is to plausibly threaten and possibly enact these measures. This is not legal advice.
- qazwsxedchac 3y ago
  Note that if you are based outside Germany and you want to start a "Mahnverfahren" then you'll need to start it at the district court of Berlin-Wedding https://www.mahngerichte.de/mahngerichte/wedding/ https://www.mahngerichte.de/mahngerichte/wedding/ not at any other municipality's court. Only do this yourself if you speak and read German well enough to handle the correspondence yourself. Otherwise you really need a German lawyer to act for you. It is sometimes possible to agree payment of lawyer's fees according to the value in dispute instead of being billed for time spent. This can keep costs down.
- kiraken 3y ago
  Yes, I was hired as a contractor. The company is based in Köhlstraße, do you know which municipality website I need to file the complaint from?
  - mtmail 3y ago
gizmo 3y ago
A polite letter informing them they are in violation of labor laws should be sufficient. Their gamble is you’re afraid to assert your rights, and if you can make clear that you understand they are guaranteed to lose a court case if it gets to that point they’ll pay you swiftly. European companies really don’t want to get a reputation of getting sued by their employees and losing, and they also don’t want to anger local judges. Make sure your letter(s) are well informed, factual, nonemotional, and don’t make any threats (explicit or implied).
nik736 3y ago
Name and shame ;)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
donnie12345 3y ago
Where are you from ? What's your occupation and nature of contract?

29 points by kiraken 3y ago

keikobadthebad 3y ago

Check your contract, it will usually say disputes have to be performed in Germany. It just doesn't sound like there's enough money at stake to pay german lawyers, manage the case and come out ahead even if they pay. You can try a place like this (just a result of a quick google, no idea about them) https://www.bierensgroup.com/en-gb/debt-collection-germany/ https://www.bierensgroup.com/en-gb/debt-collection-germany/ Getting chased up in german, from germany, in the correct form might panic them into paying.

sjducb 3y ago

I’m not in Germany but as it’s in the EU I would contact a German employment lawyer. Write a short summary of the events, detailing what they should have paid you, when they should pay it, what they did pay you, when they paid it, and how much they still owe you. Also include a copy of your contract. Use bullet points and make it as easy to read as possible. Imagine you’re asking a stack overflow question. Probably the lawyer will give you a free initial consultation where they tell you the next free steps. Maybe the lawyer will charge you a few hundred euros to send a letter before action. If the company doesn’t pay, and is still solvent then the lawyer might recommend taking them to court as the company will have to pay the lawyers fees if you win the case. It’s likely your case is open and shut and it’ll never go anywhere near court.

patwoz 3y ago

I had the same problem long time ago and I contacted a lawyer. He suggested that I write a letter in which I give the company 2 weeks to transfer the money with the threat of calling a lawyer if it is not transferred. And only then get an lawyer. The company transferred the money and the problem was solved in my case.

ThePhysicist 3y ago

I assume if you're based outside of EU you were paid as a contractor? In that case you can start a legal dunning process (gerichtliches Mahnverfahren), that's actually surprisingly easy to start, most municipalities provide it as an online service. The court will ask you to provide some proof of the unpaid services you provided and send a court order to the company, most companies crater after that and pay. Once you have an enforcement order (Vollstreckungstitel) you can start the debt enforcement process (Zwangsvollstreckung), an official court agent will seek to retrieve the debt from the company then, going as far as seizing office assets and even cash in the founders pockets (it can be quite humiliating). As I said, it's a surprisingly easy process to get started and it's really intimidating to most companies as any legal action might lead to being publicly documented and tainting the credit score of the company, it can even lead to court ordered bankruptcy filing. If you were actually employed you need to take the company to the labour court (Lohnklage), given how difficult it is to employ someone who's residing outside of the EU I imagine this to be even scarier for the company, so they should be very willing to settle their debt with you. Again, the key point is to plausibly threaten and possibly enact these measures. This is not legal advice.

qazwsxedchac 3y ago
Note that if you are based outside Germany and you want to start a "Mahnverfahren" then you'll need to start it at the district court of Berlin-Wedding https://www.mahngerichte.de/mahngerichte/wedding/ https://www.mahngerichte.de/mahngerichte/wedding/ not at any other municipality's court. Only do this yourself if you speak and read German well enough to handle the correspondence yourself. Otherwise you really need a German lawyer to act for you. It is sometimes possible to agree payment of lawyer's fees according to the value in dispute instead of being billed for time spent. This can keep costs down.
kiraken 3y ago
Yes, I was hired as a contractor. The company is based in Köhlstraße, do you know which municipality website I need to file the complaint from?
- mtmail 3y ago

gizmo 3y ago

A polite letter informing them they are in violation of labor laws should be sufficient. Their gamble is you’re afraid to assert your rights, and if you can make clear that you understand they are guaranteed to lose a court case if it gets to that point they’ll pay you swiftly. European companies really don’t want to get a reputation of getting sued by their employees and losing, and they also don’t want to anger local judges. Make sure your letter(s) are well informed, factual, nonemotional, and don’t make any threats (explicit or implied).

nik736 3y ago

Name and shame ;)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

donnie12345 3y ago

Where are you from ? What's your occupation and nature of contract?