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I feel that this type of story is never punctuated by the fact that this is the mechanism by which we feed all of humanity - industrialization. All industrializ
by parentheses 3y ago
I feel that this type of story is never punctuated by the fact that this is the mechanism by which we feed all of humanity - industrialization. All industrialization being painted as largely evil is counterproductive to finding the optimum point of trading off unnatural interventions and sustainable preservation. The goal is to feed the planet efficiently rather than preserve practices that work only on small farms.
- bandushrew 3y agoThe counterpoint is that this isn't a step that is being taken because we are desperately trying to feed all of humanity. Its a step thats being taken because these providers want to increase their profit margins. The question is whether thats a good enough reason to take whatever risks are being taken here.
- gloryjulio 3y agoThe underlying point was never discussed enough. We just had too many people on earth and our technology is not good enough to feed all while being sustainable
- pas 3y agothat's simply not true. there is both enough food and space and technology (and energy). the problem is allocation and distribution of that. eating industrial salmon is not a necessity for anyone.
- space_fountain 3y agoAnd the counterpoint to that is that it’s searching for profits that push for greater efficiency in the presence of competition. They aren’t searching necessarily for larger profit margins, just more profit. Sure if they have a monopoly either in practice or classically they’ll just pocket more of the money, but ideally someone will realize they could make even more money by lowering prices. Ryanair is successful not because they have a huge profit margin, but because they move a lot of people.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago> it’s searching for profits that push for greater efficiency Efficiency like John Deer using the copyright law to stop Farmers from repairing their tractors? https://capturedeconomy.com/how-copyright-enabled-john-deere-to-restrict-farmers-right-to-repair/ https://capturedeconomy.com/how-copyright-enabled-john-deere...
- alphanullmeric 3y agoGood thing capitalism is against the right to an idea.
- Dylan16807 3y agoThe definition of capitalism used by 99% of people is one that includes copyright.
- alphanullmeric 3y agoThe one that goes “force is only justified in response to force” does not.
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoWhere do I find this capitalism, which country, i an packing my bags right now. Is it China, since they are the ones that seem to flout patents all the time? Why is it that the 'Capitalists' on here want to take all the credit, but when there is a problem it's got nothing to do with them?
- CatWChainsaw 3y agoThere's a reason they call them externalities. When you use fancy terminology for "not my problem", you gain legitimacy.
- alphanullmeric 3y agoThere is none, because there are no pure economies. Is capitalism for or against government intervention?
- dvasdekis 3y agoIt isn't like farmed salmon is a crucial staple food without substitutes - nobody will starve without it. There are plenty of other fish breeds that are less damaging across their production lifecycle. Farmed salmon is a luxury good and we shouldn't be harming the environment for that.
- chmod600 3y agoWhat other fish do you recommend?
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoAnchovy, Herring, any fish that is not at the top of the food chain. Salmon is a predator, it's like eating tigers.
- ceejayoz 3y agoUnlike tigers, salmon are definitely not at the top of the food chain.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- riku_iki 3y ago> Anchovy, Herring are they farmable on industrial scale to feed humanity?
- MiguelX413 3y agoIrrelevant, because we're not seeking to replace such a staple in the first place, as was already previously stated.
- riku_iki 3y agoI didn't get who are those "we" and where it was stated and by who, and why that who is an absolute authority in this discussion that any other opinions are labeled as "irrelevant"
- capybara_2020 3y agoIndustrialization without regulation is bad. Industrial fish farming seems to be bad in general. Salmon farming feels like stealing from the poor to feed the rich in some ways. They use cheaper nutritious smaller fish that people eat directly in other parts of the world to feed the Salmon. Unfortunately a lot of industrialized farming does not seem to be about feeding the planet efficiently.
- octacat 3y agoIt is like selling bottled underground water in the desert because "we can drill deeper".
- fzeroracer 3y agoPart of the reason why we have many of these regulations in the first place was because rampant industrialization in the pre-modern age lead to many foods being adulterated with many unsafe replacements or poor food standards quite literally poisoning people. The goal of any company lobbying to reduce limits isn't for the safety of the consumer, it's for increasing profit margins even if it has bad downstream effects (because slight increases to cancer rates or whatever would not have a measurable effect on a company that will be dead in 10-20 years). Things like nutritional value or health concerns are secondary to making money.
- moomoo11 3y agoEveryone go plant based boom climate crisis averted lol
- lost_tourist 3y agothat's not true. "meat farming" is only part of the problem.
- pazimzadeh 3y agoThe question is not natural vs non-natural. Industrialization is rife with short-term thinking. The idea that this will help humans long term has not been proven. The only people who are SURE not to be negatively affected by this kind of thing are the super rich, who are not getting their salmon from the same places as you and I do.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago> goal is to feed the planet efficiently If that was actually the goal, we would be investing into bioengineering salt-water tolerant crops, like China is doing. Or into permaculture, like many environmentalists are advocating. Or at least we would legally mandate interoperability and repairability of farm hardware, like right to repair advocates. But really the goal is to allow the established industrial players to continue their existing business practices, even thought they are harmful and thoughtless.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoThere's plenty of food. Profits before people is the message: that people are stupid and expendable while corporations "know" better.
- berniedurfee 3y agoI don’t think it’s as evil as it is myopic. This story is specifically about ignoring long term effects to an entire ecosystem to sustain operations that are apparently not sustainable without sacrificing an entire ecosystem in the long term. Industrialization is nearly always the practice of punting long term issues to another part of the world or to another generation. I would assert that most industrialists are looking to maximize profit through economies of scale with little to no concern for sustainability. That’s how it started and I think that’s how it ends. So, I guess maybe being myopic at scale is evil.
- octacat 3y agoAnd any sustainable farm (which uses less chemicals / farms in the fish tanks) has no chance, because it is all about the low price in the end.