10 ms·
Microsoft Edge is starting to annoy me big time
- bradley13 3y agoOnce companies reach a certain size, they become actively evil. It's all about money, and they no longer care about their supposed customers. Governments have forgotten their antitrust responsibilities. We need to make it simple and automatic: Define an upper limit where a company is too big to exist. Companies above this size must divest. Micrisoft, Alphabet, Apple, Meta - many tech companies are too big, by an order of magnitude. Split them up.
- dijit 3y agothe trouble with big tech for the USA is that everyone else (at least in europe) is unable to compete as long as these companies are able to be so large they squeeze out (or buy out) all possible competition. Similar to how it's difficult to go to war with countries that supply you energy (like.. Germany's recent tough time with Russia): USA being in this position means they dictate the rules of the internet and internet companies. This is an amazing position politically because they are the de facto owners of the economy for the next century. Imagine making a business without AWS, GCP or Azure? Imagine Making a business without Google Docs or MS Office? -- it's unfathomable to most, I promise, and that's a great amount of power. All they have to do, is not break the monopolies.
- mig39 3y agoIt's no longer about "free market" once they get to a certain size. It's all about monopoly.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CWuestefeld 3y ago> Once companies reach a certain size, they become actively evil. > Governments have forgotten their antitrust responsibilities. Is it possible that these are two sides of the same thing? That is, what's the real difference between a corporation versus a government? I'd imagine a lot of similarity in terms of organizational dynamics. If we see a problem from corporations when they grow too large, shouldn't we also expect problems from governments when they get big?
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoI agree with you and think anything larger than 1% of GDP should be split but the problem is that other countries might not do the same, making it difficult for domestic companies to compete with a foreign company like Samsung, which is over 20% of South Korea's GDP. Even accounting for the difference in national GDPs, Samsung would have an advantage over the five or six Baby Apples that would result from the 1% rule.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago> Once companies reach a certain size, they become actively evil. Because they can't just be steady earners. Everyone has to show quarter after quarter after quarter increases. It's madness and it really needs to stop.
- mumblemumble 3y agoI think that this time around it's not actually something that falls under US antitrust law. At the time of the 2001 IE antitrust suit, Internet Explorer had 90% browser marketshare and was using it to prop up the dominance of Windows as well. Many websites relied on IE-only features such as ActiveX controls, so you could get shut out of things if you didn't use IE, which in turn meant you'd be shut out of them if you didn't use Windows. Nowadays, Microsoft's behavior is undeniably shitty. But Edge's 10% or 15% marketshare is hardly a monopoly, so I don't think it falls under the jurisdiction of antitrust laws. Though I certainly wouldn't cry to find out that it falls under some other kind of consumer protection law.
- lxgr 3y agoYes, antitrust is probably not the best conceptual framework to think about the problems arising from having several very similar vertically integrated platforms. The EU's upcoming Digital Markets Act seems to more explicitly target that problem – I'm very curious how that will go.
- dmitrygr 3y ago> The EU's upcoming Digital Markets Act seems to more explicitly target that problem You are naive if you think that this is what DMA is about. DMA is simply about Europe squeezing some money out of American companies. This is evident in the design and how carefully it was written to capture as many American companies and as few European ones as possible.
- dijit 3y agoWasnt it that IE was being pushed by the monopoly desktop operating system. afaik, thats still the case.
- wnoise 3y agoI had thought that the argument was that bundling was more using Windows (near monopoly) to prop up IE usage, rather than vice-versa. If in 2001 (with no smartphones), IE only runs on Windows, it's kind of hard to have IE have a _higher_ share of the market than Windows.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- randomdata 3y ago> Governments have forgotten their antitrust responsibilities. Have they forgotten, or have they simply reached that certain size whereby they must actively become evil?
- BillyTheMage 3y agoIt's not size, it's function. Their evil only becomes apparent at scale, it still exists at every level. Capitalists, fundamentally, are parasites. I think a better idea would be to make it so that all companies must be worker-owned coops instead of slavery operations owned by a small group of parasites.
- rolph 3y agoMonkey business with button lables, and redefinition of language--again >> Now, let's talk about the prompt message and the buttons ... It says: "With your permission, we'll collect and use ...". Now, the reason for this prompt is because I disabled this very option in the browser. But Microsoft seems to not like that, so it prompts me to reconsider, every now and then. Your choices are to click either Got it! or Learn more. The latter takes you into the Settings, ergo disrupts your browsing and usage flow. You are FORCED to interact with the browser's shitty attempt to force you to give up your data, instead of you browsing like a normal human being. The former is worse. It TOGGLES the option on. So it's not an explicit YES. It's a vague indirect approval, which supposed stems from your "understanding" the message "With your permission" and that you're OK with it. <<
- uep 3y agoWow. It feels like that "Got it!" dialog box has to violate privacy laws at least somewhere in the world.
- polotics 3y agoWow indeed. Stealing approval like this is beyond the pale, no more Windows for me.
- hackinthebochs 3y agoGroup policy settings will keep it off. Can be set if you have a pro version of windows or a business/enterprise version. It's the only way I will trust using MS Edge.
- karmakaze 3y agoI noticed a similar thing when disabling anti-virus, realtime protection. In the notifications if you use the "Dismiss" option label, it will re-enable it. But if you dismiss the category of messages (or all messages) in your notifications sidebar it stays off.
- Dwedit 3y agoI uninstalled Edge after all the news stories about it transmitting every website you visit to Microsoft.
- andersrs 3y agoIt's funny that Chrome does the same and nobody really cares. I've compared social media posts covering the equivalent anti-privacy features in each browser and Edge gets an order of magnitude more the hate than Chrome. Maybe because the expectation is that a build-in OS browser shouldn't be run for profit?
- lolinder 3y agoThe adware isn't just Edge, Windows in general has gotten out of control. The other day I spent a few minutes on high alert because I got a notification about a "Grand Prize Giveaway". I assumed I somehow had malware, but no, the only malware I had was Windows itself [0]. Apparently this was part of Microsoft Rewards, which you can opt out of... in your Microsoft account. If you jumped through the hoops that are now required to get a local account, tough luck. [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/15z6rol/windows_grand_prize_giveaway_spam_notifications/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/15z6rol/windows_g...
- kwanbix 3y agoI use Windows 10 IoT (supported until 2035) and I don't see any of those problems.
- wkat4242 3y agoIf consumers could actually buy that version that would be a really useful tip :)
- kwanbix 3y agoI am a consumer and I was able to get it ;) But yes, I know what you mean, obviously.
- layer8 3y agoThere’s probably a lot of software that won’t be supporting Windows 10 until 2035, including Microsoft’s own software.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- riffic 3y ago"has gotten" implies this is something new and not a decades long quality of Microsoft operating systems
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoWindows is mandatory at work and Edge is making life ever more annoying. It is setup as the default browser, the personalizations (don't show me your crappy news, background, or helpful links...) always come back, and simple things like "set new tabs to be a blank page" aren't allowed. Not looking forward to Windows 11 when presumably everything will get ever worse. What's bizarre is that the employer is outwardly very security conscious and surfing random websites is a route to dismissal. Yet the porous and intrusive Edge is allowed to run amok. Of course, extensions to minimize the suck aren't permitted, either.
- EvanAnderson 3y agoThe "set new tabs to be a blank page" option is missing from Chrome, too. I don't want a "new tab page"-- I just want a blank tab.
- djbusby 3y agoThese days you have to make an extension to package up a single empty HTML file and set it as NTP. WTF.
- GordonS 3y agoI should work if you set the URL to: about:blank
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoThat's my workaround : Put about:blank on the bookmarks bar and train myself to click it instead of ctrl T for a new tab.
- EvanAnderson 3y agoThat works for the "home page". Not for new tabs, sadly. You're stuck making an extension.
- wincy 3y agoBut Chrome desperately needs to tell you it’s Earth Day or Indigenous People’s Day or something equally unimportant with a breathless enthusiasm that would make a Southern Baptist Preacher on a Telethon blush. I’ve finally hit a wall with “enhancements” in chrome I can’t shut off. If I type “man” in the Omnibar I don’t want to know about Manchester United and get an icon with the team. In fact I don’t want any pictures at all in the omnibar. Apparently my Google Fu isn’t good enough or it’s just flat out impossible to change, because I still get what I feel are ads for brands in the Omnibar when I search for stuff.
- nappy-doo 3y agoI hate stuff like this. My personal main gripe is with BJs. If you decline to automatically renew, they continue to ask you. I want to run for office to pass a law that makes it a requirement to remember I've opted out of crap.
- BeefyMcGhee 3y agoYour gripe is with what now??
- vuln 3y agoIt’s a Wholesale Club, OP forgot the apostrophe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJ%27s_Wholesale_Club https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJ%27s_Wholesale_Club
- paulryanrogers 3y agoWholesale stores requiring a membership subscription
- BrandoElFollito 3y agoHad the same reaction and, as a non-native speaker of English, was wondering what other meaning thus acronym may have.
- isoprophlex 3y agoWho the hell wouldn't like automatically renewing BJs?! smirk
- Sunspark 3y agoYou can use the ungoogled-chromium flatpak on Linux for your secondary.
- mongol 3y agoFor how long have Microsoft been about selling me to advertisers, and not only selling me software? For a company that is so much about selling licenses and services, it disgusts me to have to deal with this crap. I understand companies that based their entire existence on this, I try to avoid them, but Microsoft I think should be a safe choice. Disgusting.
- ndiddy 3y agoThe mistake you're making is that you're thinking like a user instead of an MBA. MBAs are taught that when you have a profitable segment of the business that isn't growing (such as Windows license sales), the correct move is to spend as little money as possible maintaining it and spend all of its profits on business segments that are growing (in Microsoft's case, cloud services, gaming, and advertising). Once you start looking at things through this lens, Microsoft's handling of Windows starts to make sense. For example, they've laid off their full-time Windows QA staff in favor of volunteer "Windows Insiders", and have basically given up on having a consistent look and feel for their operating system. Meanwhile, all their new Windows features and programs exist to drive business to growing business segments. To name a few examples, Visual Studio Code and WSL exist to drive business towards Azure and Github, Edge exists to collect user browsing data to sell to advertisers, and the game bar (Win+G) and preloaded Xbox app exist to drive business towards Xbox. They even replaced the right Windows key on their later (made after ~2019) keyboards with an unremappable button that launches the cloud version of Microsoft Office.
- zb3 3y agoI don't even use Windows, but perhaps there's some way to take revenge on Microsoft and spam them with fake data?
- mumblemumble 3y agoIt's starting to bleed out of Edge, too. Recently Outlook showed me a popup explaining that they're going to start ignoring my system default browser setting and open all hyperlinks in Edge instead, on the pretense that Edge offers a better browsing experience for Sharepoint. Mind you, it didn't just do this for Sharepoint links; it did it for all links. They did create a special, "no, really, respect my browser choice," but it took me a hot minute to find.
- 0xcde4c3db 3y ago> They did create a special, "no, really, respect my browser choice," but it took me a hot minute to find. I'll be impressed if that option lasts more than, say, 18 months. They also had a "don't integrate Bing search into the Start Menu" option, until they didn't.
- scruple 3y agoThis happened to me at work recently and I genuinely lost my shit for a few minutes. Started ranting a bit with colleagues. We all hate it. There's an option in there somewhere to flip it back to the system default but then you need to make sure Edge doesn't magically become your default during some update or whatever. Hate it so much.
- photoGrant 3y agoSince when has 'Got it!' meant 'I Agree'? I sure wish there was a little more protection over what's considered a yes/no versus what's considered harassment and dark patterns in order to coerce that behaviour into profitable funnels. But then, who's dollar as developers do we fight for? The same one's that enable this crap. The thumbs are big. So the cycle continues.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago'No' in lots of places has been replaced with 'Maybe later'. Really annoying.
- netsharc 3y ago[flagged]
- orhmeh09 3y agoEveryone's getting cute. I was investigating a pet insurer and all of the typical buttons had "wacky" labels with rhymes and so on. To choose the type of animal, you have to select "woof!" or "meow!" Insurance is the last thing I want to be "playful."
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y agoThe cutesy-wootsy icons add insult to injury. I only recently learned that it is called Alegria or Corporate Memphis[0]. Whatever it is called, the bloated semihumans make me long for the timeless design of Mr. Paperclip. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFb7BOI_QFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFb7BOI_QFc
- lofaszvanitt 3y agoOh all those - brainwashed? - web developers who love and use vs code and other MS based things. This is what you get for your loyalty. MS gave you Internet Explorer quirks hell for decades. Now that everyone retired IE and finally we could forget about it, Edge is back to do the same shenanigans as IE did. Simply making your life miserable. Go on people, embrace MS, use their products, pay, pay, pay! Now no matter whether you are a user or a developer, you will suffer. You have a feeling you are part of a human experiment, because nothing makes sense. Oh if Edge will reach a given userbase expect even more madness. Historians, what a time to be alive! Just sit back and enjoy.
- skybrian 3y agoOr maybe use VS Code for free until it gets too annoying, and then switch to another editor or fork. It's not so hard. Not suffering.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pjmlp 3y agoThe same that have helped to push Chrome almost everywhere.
- eddieh 3y agoGitHub has really gone down hill too, but it is free I guess.
- bradley13 3y agoPlenty of choices there as well. GitLab, BitBucket, etc.
- hnburnsy 3y agoCompletly agree that this popup is bs trying to get me change privacy settings with misleading verbiage. There is a way to stop this... https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-personalize-your-web-experience-prompt-in-microsoft-edge/amp/ https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-personalize-your-web-expe...
- fuzzy2 3y agoIt was clear from day 1 that Chromium Edge is a Trojan horse from Microsoft. But then, many of my colleagues use it, put up with tabloid-style New Tab pages and don’t use an ad blocker, so there’s that.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jacobwilliamroy 3y agoI wonder what happens at microsoft. What do they do all day? I've tried to use microsoft products and follow the happy path that they designed and be a good boy and even then nothing seems to work. Like I remember the other day I changed the configuration on a domain but the changes didn't take effect for over an hour because I was supposed to reboot the client I was working on, even though there were no instructions telling me to do that. Why? Who is this stuff for? Would this stuff make sense to me if I was microsoft certified?
- layer8 3y agoIncentives for Microsoft managers are not aligned to improve user experience.
- manicennui 3y agoWhy does Edge even exist at this point? Why does MS spend the money to continue to develop a browser that no one wants?
- dizhn 3y agoThe behavior here is super sketchy. I am glad they brought it up. Dark patterns are everywhere. This reminds me of how a kid gets permission for something in a roundabout way then protests when caught. That said: >> As you know, I always neuter my browser's "tracking" activity, as much as I can. Yet their choice is Edge. (as secondary, definition unknown) >> it seems I ought to stop using Edge altogether, and uninstall it from my Linux machines That much is obvious. I feel they should question how they ended up here in the first place. :)
- butz 3y agoYou are a really patient person. There was a tiny interval of time when Edge had some promise, right after it switched to Chromium engine. But it quickly went sideways, probably when management seen rising usage numbers. Web browser should be as basic as possible by default. Only with minimal set of features, that user expects: bookmarks, history, etc. All other nonsense should come as extensions that user installs if he needs them. I might go as far to say, that notifications or gelocation should be extensions too, that can be easily disabled. So you take "browser base" (engine) and build whatever you desire on top of it. Want Google integration? Use Google extensions. Prefer Microsoft ecosystem? Install Microsoft extensions. Or just install an ad-blocker and browse in peace.
- djbusby 3y agoAnyone tried ReactOS recently? Supposed to be a clean-room FOSS Windows NT compatible OS. https://reactos.org/ https://reactos.org/ It's still on my TODO. Mostly cause my parents want XP back.
- rolph 3y agoim looking into the idea of setting up a DVD iso of win to boot and run from read only device. the problem likely comes from externals being pushed in on request from OS. if the cruftcraft originates from a dll, that means a lot more work
- hackinthebochs 3y agoI use a VM with a non-persistent OS drive
- RexFactorem 3y ago[dead]
- daft_pink 3y agoIs there legit software that we can download to put a stop to all this nonsense?
- mancerayder 3y agoDoes Pi Hole or DNS filtering with an outbound proxy fix this stuff?
- jiggawatts 3y agoA lot of admins used to block *.microsoft.com to stop this kind of thing in controlled networks. Then Microsoft added microsft.com as a telemetry endpoint to work around such blocks.
- jiggawatts 3y agoWindows Server 2022 now comes with the chromium-based Edge, so you don’t need to use IE for loopback testing of a web server. Every time I open Edge on a server, I have to click through the same three nag screens. “Would you like to…” NO “Enhance your experience…” NO “Migrate your non-existent…” NO It’s obvious to me that nobody at Microsoft uses their own garbage. They use Macs on the laptops and use Linux in Azure for their own services.
- xnx 3y agoI would not have guessed that Microsoft would be pushing these dark patterns and ads harder than Chrome OS (for now).