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Tesla (TSLA) tumbles on price cuts, “appreciating asset” dream going away
- mensetmanusman 3y agoIn a well functioning economy things are supposed to get cheaper to raise the relative net wealth of everyone. TSLA has been overpriced for years according to the CEO.
- WeylandYutani 3y agoTesla is slashing the prices of their cars because of Chinese competition. The market is functioning quite nicely- at least until Musk can convince Washington to put BYD on a sanctions list.
- GenerWork 3y agoWho on Earth thought that a mass produced car could be turned into an "appreciating asset"?
- steeve 3y agoThat's how it was advertised in 2019 by Musk when turned into a robotaxi [1] 1. https://electrek.co/2019/04/12/tesla-vehicles-appreciating-assets-self-driving-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2019/04/12/tesla-vehicles-appreciating-a...
- aj7 3y agoThe whole article was stupid, but it led to a lively discussion. Of course a car isn’t an appreciating asset. It accumulates your farts.
- yumraj 3y agoA cat as an “appreciating asset”. Did people really buy into that?? I guess there really is no correlation between money and intelligence.
- lode 3y agoMy cat gets more valuable (to me) every day. A car, not so much.
- hsjsjdbrb 3y agodesirable models of Porsche cars will appreciate
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- arthurcolle 3y agoI wouldn't replace the meow meows for anything
- courseofaction 3y agoAre Tesla cars widely thought to be "appreciating assets"? I've never heard anyone repeat this view, was this seriously claimed by Tesla? Seems fairly obviously false.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SoftTalker 3y agoIf it really was marketed as an appreciating asset the SEC may come calling.
- dehrmann 3y agoThe realistic investment thesis for Tesla was always that it ends up as big of a player as GM, Ford, or Toyota. The valuation was driven by irrational optimism and hope it could sustain its margins as competition increases. It's looking like that's not going to happen (no surprise, here), and its margins will end up looking more like a legacy carmaker's. The open question is what happens to car prices as electric drivetrains take over. Between motors being cheaper and battery prices coming down, the BOM should drop, but does that turn into higher margins (mostly for legacy carmakers), higher base trims, or lower prices.
- abracadaniel 3y agoThe common response to this is that they are an energy company and not a car company. However, while there has been some progress on the grid scale storage side, solar seems to have faded into obscurity. The only time they’ve ever paid attention to it was when Musk was being accused of acquiring Solar City to bail out his brother.
- panick21_ 3y agoA lot of the growth in energy actually came from local storage, not grid storage if you look at the numbers. But its true that the energy business alone is already quick big and growing very fast. That said, people who really understand Tesla, do not think of it as an energy company. Cars are and will be the majority of Tesla revenue, profit and growth. But its certainty good to have power infrastructure and products. Solar as you correctly said, is not working out very well, but I think they have found the roof market to be much harder then expected.
- jacquesm 3y agoFor Tesla solar has faded into obscurity, because they're a bit player in the solar market. But meanwhile solar has taken off in an absolutely immense way. The number of panels installed in Europe on account of Putin's empire building efforts has accelerated the energy transition quite a bit, likewise for things like heatpumps, house insulation and so on.
- aj7 3y ago
- midasuni 3y agoThis is dated Fri sep 1st where TsLA closed at 245. The previous Friday, 25th aug, it closed at 238 I’m not sue what “tumble” means in this instance Sure Tesla isn’t at the heights of a couple of years ago, but neither is the S&P in general. Given that at the start of 2020 TsLa was about $30 and it’s now about 8 times higher, a “tumble” would be back down well below 10.
- EA-3167 3y agoExcept that the previous day, August 31st, TSLA was up to 257.96 So... that's a tumble.
- bhouston 3y agoAnd it is up 2% for the week, but down 3% for the month, and up 22% for the last 6 months. Tesla is a volatile stock, in part because it is quite speculative.
- aj7 3y agoInvesting in the technology leader blunts the speculative aspect. And the volatility is caused by panicky, inexperienced investors jumping in and out at the margins.
- bhouston 3y agoIt is a theory that Tesla will dominate all profits in the EV industry similar to Apple in the smartphone market. It isn’t a sure thing, it is a theory. Being a true believe is a faith based endeavor. It isn’t clear at this point it is right.
- layer8 3y agoI guess that’s crucial when you invest in derivatives. ;)
- midasuni 3y agoHaving rocketed through the week?
- jokoon 3y agoInvest in bikes and nuclear and trains
- panick21_ 3y agoIts very hard to invest in these things. Most advanced nuclear is not public. Trains are usually part of really old really large companies. And with bikes there are just so many competitors its hard to have any understanding in that market. As a society, of course we should invest in bikes, nuclear and trains. But as an investor, EV and batteries make more sense. The thing is, we don't need new technology to solve our problems. Trains and nuclear work fine with 1980s technology and supply chains. However transforming the car industry to electric is a gigantic growth opportunity.
- jokoon 3y agoyou just explained why capitalism is problematic: always short term
- panick21_ 3y agoHas nothing to do with 'capitalism'. It has to do with what government invest money into and how they drive infrastructure. There is a huge opportunity in EV because governments uniformly push for it and the car and car infrastructure have been the majority of infrastructure investment over the last 70+ years. And investment is not always short term either but if there is a huge push of money and an exploding industry and you think you can recognize that before others, then its a good opportunity, and its not short term but more mid-term. If you invested in Tesla around 2016 its not short term where you win a lot of money. The same goes for investment in the battery supply chain. At the same time the idea that these intensives are not universal, is simple wrong. Human always like short term success. So to blame short term thinking on capitalism is ridiculous. The Soviet Union often preferred short term political wins over long term success as well.
- christkv 3y agoI think the biggest question is if Tesla is going to be able to establish itself as a luxury brand as well as a mid brand. The margin is in the luxury segment.
- te_chris 3y agoThey’d have to try making luxury cars first.
- panick21_ 3y agoNo that's not at all it. 'Luxury' is not a real thing. Its a purely subjective category bad based on nothing. Tesla is already selling cars at the avg sales price of new cars. The question that is more relevant is if they can establish themselves into the very large Pickup and SUV markets. And can they make a profitable low cost EV.
- penjelly 3y ago> Tesla is already selling cars at the avg sales price of new cars without an EV credit, tesla is NOT selling anywhere near the avg price of new cars. I just checked in Canada a base model 3 is 55k before tax. Avg new car cost is 35k before tax, thats a massive difference.
- panick21_ 3y ago> In the United States, the average selling price for a new light vehicle came to around 46,290 U.S. dollars in 2022 and > The cheapest Tesla model is the base Model 3, which starts at $40,240 The US is the far bigger market. But your point is correct that this is not true for every single market.
- prepend 3y agoI always thought people who “prepaid” for FSB were kind of silly. So I don’t have much sympathy for rich people who drop such money on things that don’t exist yet. It seems 360k people have bought this since it went on sale in 2016[0]. 7 years is a long time to wait. I imagine people will end up end of lifing their cars before FSD actually comes out. It’s odd though as I have a friend who didn’t buy the total one but prepaid for some things and they say they are pretty happy with what it can do now- adaptive cruise control and lane changes. So that seems similar to Subaru and Toyota and everyone else’s adaptive cruise control. And I think those folks charge a few grand too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot
- rsynnott 3y ago> “appreciating asset” dream going away _Surely_ no-one ever believed this?