5 ms·

California tech transplants unhappy with exodus to Austin, report says

53 points by CharlesW 3y ago

Robdel12 3y ago
Thank GOD. Please stop moving here then. And if you hate it, leave and take that annoying attitude with you.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  The housing is still comparatively cheap though, so while it might slow it wont stop
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Define "comparatively". Ricky dink suburban ranch homes that are anywhere remotely central, but otherwise nothing special, go for 1.3-1.5 million. Sure, that's cheaper than super in-demand places like the Bay Area, but (a) property taxes are much higher here because we have no state income tax, and (b) it may be cheaper on a per-dollar basis, but salaries here aren't usually as high as SF or NY, and we have way, way, way fewer amenities compared to those cities.
- coding123 3y ago
  This should be a top comment.
- autotune 3y ago
  The unofficial motto of Austin has been "don't move here" for something like at least the last decade I think.
  - rbolkey 3y ago
    The unofficial infrastructure policy has explicitly been "if we don't build it, they won't come" since at least the 70s.
- kelnos 3y ago
  This is what I've been saying about the people in SF. While I feel for you, I hope they don't come back here. Every city, including SF and Austin, are better off without the people who don't actually want to live there.
  - davidw 3y ago
    Maybe if the Bay Area started building enough housing, people who wanted to live there could do so.
    - antisthenes 3y ago
      Maybe the techies should form a union and lobby the local municipalities to relax the zoning laws. After all, some of that monopolistic rent should go to good uses.
      - davidw 3y ago
        There are groups working on this: * https://new.yimbyaction.org/ https://new.yimbyaction.org/ * https://cayimby.org/ https://cayimby.org/
- tayo42 3y ago
  The article says they are trying to... The rising interest rate thing sucks. People are trapped in their home, because an equal value home mortage would cost more. Then there isn't any supply, so prices go up, making it even harder, now even equivalent homes are less quality
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into regional flamewar, or any flamewar, no matter which region or group you have a problem with. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
photoGrant 3y ago
I moved to Austin post-pandemic (career move/not tech) from Chicago and I have my regrets. What I didn't realise was many of my disdains about Austin are exactly what the article says... Here ambition dies... Now I can't unsee.
- bwb 3y ago
  Can you explain, why does ambition die?
  - lazide 3y ago
    They probably figured if they went somewhere that wasn’t big city and could just not have big city people in the way, everything would be better. Then they realized same shit, different flavor, albeit worse in many ways, and many of their problems/issues were within themselves all along. Tends to kill some of the enthusiasm and drive.
    - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
      I moved to Austin in 2012 and left in 2020. What was great back then was that salaries were almost comparable but the COL was so much lower. Until 2016 or so, Austin had the best salary to COL ratio of tech towns in the country. But that all changed when the Californians started showing up en masse. Austin was never truly going to compete with SF on its perks, but it was a cool town that allowed people to live comfortably.
      - predictabl3 3y ago
        I absolutely love that Texas has managed to convince their citizens that the states' problems are definitely most certainly all those California transplants (that they encouraged to immigrate) and not the states own self inflicted bs.
      - majormajor 3y ago
        What companies were paying these comparable-to-the-Bay 2012 salaries? I left Texas around when you moved there and was not finding "almost comparable" salaries to the Bay Area in many places at all. It was a big part of why I left - very few of my costs increased anywhere near as much as my salary did, so I was able to save and invest far more money per year.
PhilipRoman 3y ago
Interesting to hear such a report from a San Francisco news site. I don't want to imply anything but perhaps they aren't the most reliable narrator in this case.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  I can see that although the expectation would be that a newspaper would truthfully report the views of those who have moved away, if anything to shine a spotlight on conditions that are driving residents to leave. If the narrator is more of the pessimistic type, then perhaps their motives are more personal, or the newspaper wishes to dissuade readers from leaving.
pix128 3y ago
> One company’s product lead pointed to thick traffic and unreliable public transportation. Another transplant cited the city’s 100-plus-degree heat, in what was one of the city’s most brutal summers since 2011, when only two days in July didn’t hit triple digits. Clearly not the brightest bunch it seems.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- extr0pian 3y ago
  I've lived here (in Austin) for three years. My partner and I decided to move to smaller city in Washington state come November. There is a lot of things to like about Austin (and even Texas), but as someone who was born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, I don't think I can live here longterm. It's not just the heat, but there's definitely more unnecessarily oversized vehicles on the road with only a single occupant driving. I'll admit it may be all in my head and I only notice these things because I'm in a different environment, but it seems many people here don't user turn signals, run red lights, and are regularly looking down at their phone while driving their truck or SUV, all while driving 10-15mph over the speed limit in a residential area. /rant
  - hhh 3y ago
    > are regularly looking down at their phone while driving their truck or SUV, all while driving 10-15mph over the speed limit in a residential area. I live in TN and this has been my everyday experience since I got my license in 2015.
    - extr0pian 3y ago
      Might simply be the new normal in all US cities then. Though more terrifying when it's someone doing it in a larger vehicle.
    - bradknowles 3y ago
      My dad lived in a Memphis, and his parents lived in Murfreesboro. I've done extensive driving in both of those areas, and the stretch of I-40 between them. My dad passed away a couple of years ago, but I haven't seen crazy drivers in TN that are as bad as the ones I've seen here in Texas. Somewhat crazy, yes. But not as bad.
blamazon 3y ago
The submitted URL [0] appears to be reporting on a longer article by Business Insider. [1, 2] [0]: https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/california-transplants-unhappy-exodus-austin-18343754.php https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/california-transplants-... [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-moved-to-austin-regrets-2023-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-moved-to-austin... [2]: https://archive.ph/tK8iE https://archive.ph/tK8iE
screye 3y ago
> thick traffic and unreliable public transportation Can't imagine Bay Area residents complaining about traffic and bad public transport. > city’s 100-plus-degree heat Maybe should've googled Austin before moving ?
- michaelhoffman 3y ago
  The Bay Area has inadequate public transport for a metro of its size, but its utility is kind of another universe from the Austin's CapMetro.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  Austin’s public transit is an absolute joke compared to SF. It’s actually embarrassing how bad it is for a city it’s size, but that’s what you get when you live in an anti-tax area like Texas. Perhaps California taxes are too high, but at least some of them are being put to good use.
  - jonahhorowitz 3y ago
    It's a myth that they pay low taxes in Texas. For most people the taxes are lower in CA (somewhat due to Prop 13).[0] [0] - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-taxed-less-texas-new-study-yes-catch https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-taxed-less-texas... [1] - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-california-higher-taxes-policy-b2161227.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-cali...
    - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
      Which makes the decision not to fund things like public transit even more ridiculous. But then again, Texas refused to deploy its literal rainy day find when Harvey hit, so it really shouldn’t be that surprising.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        > > It's a myth that they pay low taxes in Texas. > Which makes the decision not to fund things like public transit even more ridiculous. No, Texas still collects far less taxes and has less money to spend, but at similar income levels, people (outside of the very high end of the distribution) pay higher taxes in Texas. California has more strongly progressive taxes and California has a higher income population, so it can collect a lot more total taxes (per capita, it has the #3 tax revenue per capita of the 50 states + DC) despite people at or below (and up to a fair amount above) US median income paying less in taxes than people making the same amount would in Texas.
tayo42 3y ago
I feel like there is a subset of people, these are vocal online, that think cheap houses and cheap col metrics are the pinnacle of life satisfaction. You get what you are paying for. If it was actually desirable to live in these places prices would go up.
- freitzkriesler2 3y ago
  The prices have already gone up. However, unlike the Bay which artificially restricts new builds and has the added benefit of that prop that locks property tax rates comically low Texas has neither. There's an abundance of land to build in almost any direction. There isn't a cancerous NIMBY voting block that prevents new high rises. And more importantly, property taxes can go as high as or low as needed which keep downward pressure on home prices. The unfortunate thing is, there is plenty of land to build in San Francisco. What there isn't available is the political will to turn those sprawling hills of nothing into new homes or to upzone areas currently. I love San Francisco and think it has immense potential, but the place has become awful in terms of its CoL.
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    > And more importantly, property taxes can go as high as or low as needed which keep downward pressure on home prices. The major downside of this is that it forces out the lower income folks who originally owned the property. I saw so many families who bought houses 40-50 years ago in Austin who had to leave because of the property tax increases. If you’re serious about laying down roots in a town like Austin, you have to be prepared for wild increases in property taxes, which can really eat into your portfolio long term.
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      I mean, it's really hard to feel that bad for folks. People say it's about the property taxes, but a lot of people also saw that their property values tripled in a few years and were more than happy to cash in that winning lottery ticket, and I certainly don't blame them.
abernard1 3y ago
I find this a positive development. The people that moved to Austin from California are conformists. The disappointment they experience is what happens when they are not surrounded by the concentrated capital that makes their (relative boring and mundane) jobs seem more important than they are. Austin will be just fine without the herds of "talent" that stuff overfinanced Series-C "startups."
- xcrunner529 3y ago
  Do you live in Texas?
moomoo11 3y ago
Nowhere else is as nice as California, especially the coast. That is a fact, and people can try as hard as possible to deflect and "what about -" but nobody cares. The truth is, California is an amazing place to live. It is hard to afford (I'm moving out because its too expensive) but I'm going to come back once my bank is full again lol.
- alyandon 3y ago
  I spent some time in southern California as a software dev contractor during the dotcom heyday of the 90s. I was renting in one of the more affluent areas and it was clean, had great venues within walking distance, great weather, people in general didn't seem to have gigantic political sticks up their asses, etc. It also had horrible traffic on the highways and cost of living was easily about 2x as much as living in Austin in the same era. Overall, I enjoyed the experience in California - probably isn't the same these days though.
- hijinks 3y ago
  while some might disagree with the politics of CA and that's their reason given the chance if affordable, a lot of people would choose to live in CA and around on the of the 3 coastal cities. We moved from NYC->SF->Denver->San Diego and CA always pulled us back once we left. My wife isn't from the US and from a third world country. She said something that stuck with me. You have people in her country that wanted nothing but the chance to live in the US and then you had those that hated it and laughed at everything wrong with the country. She said they secretly would move in a second if they won the green card lotto but just make fun of it because they will never get a chance to move to the US. I have a feeling CA is a bit of the same for some people.
- rascul 3y ago
  > That is a fact No, it's an opinion.
- stanford_labrat 3y ago
  As someone who has been to nearly all 50 states I’m going to have to disagree. California CAN be nice, but overall is overrated and most definitely not the “best”. Even under the understanding that each state has its own advantages and disadvantages, California still does not top out in a simple ranked list imo.
programmarchy 3y ago
This article glosses over the reason people moved to Texas in 2020-2021. It had nothing to do with tech or public transportation.
- abernard1 3y ago
  These news sources don't actually care. If you've followed SF news for any length of time, what you'll realize is how extremely thin-skinned they are about any criticism. "Doom loop!? Stop making it worse." As if bad press is the root of the problems they face. What that regional tech industry morphed into post dotcom-bubble was a machine that required interchangeable, replaceable butts in seats to financialize existing business models. The city of SF, the Bay Area region, and California as a whole recognize this centrality was key to their successes and less about talent than they'd wish. The VC community there, which is notoriously trendy and short-term, realizes that they have no leverage or advantage without that concentration. Hence the panic (that's been going on well before COVID).
ProllyInfamous 3y ago
My father was a born Austinite [St. David's] — he raised me in Cuernavaca (just outside city limits, west of Austin). We are both relics of a 20th century Hill Country, which time has now changed (inevitably, as always happens): I am grateful to have moved away from my childhood memories of not having to purchase tickets in order to enjoy so many of the natural water features around town. I live outside Texas, with no plans to return. ¢¢ — I'll get off my [own] lawn, now. Enjoy ATX's modern fluorishings! All are welcome to make anywhere Something.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Outside of the obvious bias of a site with SF in it bashing Austin. I'm going to tell the tale of two people. One is a product manager for apple in Cupertino and the other is a product manager for some random non FAANG tech company in Austin. Both of these guys make $200k which is a healthy salary. The one guy at Apple, who clearly has a job that has a lot of glory, lives in a 1k sq ft 2 bedroom apartment that cost him $500k. His wife and kid live in Cleveland (to be close to family). He spends 5 days a week in San Francisco and flies back to Cleveland on the weekends to see his wife and kids. His commute is 5 minutes to Apple but he flies out of SFO Friday night (gets into Cleveland around 11pm) and then flies on Sunday after noon and gets back to San Francisco around 8pm. They also did this because his kids would have gone to abysmal Cupertino schools since he could afford a better place zoned for better schools. The other PM lives in a 3k square foot 5 bedroom house in Austin where he gets to see his kids and wife every day. His daily commute is 20 minutes. In case you didn't pick up on it, I'm the PM that lives in Austin and my friend is the Apple PM. I have him over right now for the holiday weekend and i've never seen him more miserable. He told when he sees his kids they change so much each and every week. He admitted that even with his salary, the travel, and paying 2 mortgages (one for San Francisco and one for Cleveland) him and his wife have nothing at the end of each month (thanks to CA taxes). He looks like he aged several years from this lifestyle. He won't be able to take a real vacation back to his home in the UK to visit family because he can't afford it. My friend is trying to get Apple to let him work out of the campus here in Austin. Look, I love San Francisco but it has long ceased to be a place where you can raise a family. If you're young (or old and don't care about having a family) and don't mind the rat race, then treat it like you would any over priced metro area. Make your money and GTFO. In the meantime, I absolutely love Austin. I'm loving the heat, my commute, my house (owning a house in either LA or SF, haha funny), and more importantly spending time with my family in my backyard with the sprinkler. There's more to life than this rat race and the chill atmosphere of this town is a dream. I wish I never moved to California after my stint abroad.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  Abysmal Cupertino schools are among the best public schools. Half the math faculty in the local high school are Calculus teachers, because half of the student body is on the fastest math track. A good number of students continue their high school math education at the local community college. Of course you can always get better like Proof School, where your kids take Linear Algebra without having to walk to a local community college. Also, is $200k actually right for a PM's base salary? My friend who comes from a non-traditional background recently broke into the tech industry by joining Amazon for $180k as a junior. My other friends at similar big companies have similar offers.
stevespang 3y ago
[dead]
7thaccount 3y ago
Yeahhh. If you're used to the climate of the West Coast, the South (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama...etc) is going to be absolute hell for you. If they're thinking about going hiking or doing outdoors stuff, you generally can't do that for significant portions of the year without suffering. Most of these places require you to drive everywhere too. The only real public transportation in 99% of the south are buses and you generally would only do that if you had no other options. On the plus side. There are a lot of California transplants in my area that figured out they could sell their home for millions, build a new copy in my area on a lake with nearly zero crime, and still pocket a million dollars.
- bradknowles 3y ago
  Buses are meant to take you to school. Which could even be the local college or University. They're not used for much else here in Texas. Commuter trains exist in a couple of narrow corridors, but they have very few stops, and are meant to take you downtown. If your office isn't downtown, then public transport isn't going to be of much help to you.
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    You can take buses within the cities (not something I'd recommend), but yeah. If you live in a suburb, there is no way to get anywhere without driving.
pengaru 3y ago
A fellow IRC lurker lives near Austin and we often compared outdoor temps this summer whenever he was complaining about the heat. Despite my being in the California hi-desert by JTNP, he was often hotter - with more humidity on top of it. There's definitely a hype bubble surrounding Austin blinding people to the realities of living in the region.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Sure, it's pretty easy to make fun of transplants complaining "Austin is so hot!", but as someone who has lived here for a quarter century, I think many of these complaints are valid, and, at least for me, "the bloom is off the rose" when it comes to Austin, and the past 5 years or so have seen a notable deterioration in Austin's appeal: 1. When I moved here in the late 90s, there was "the grand bargain" of Austin: it didn't have the amenities like world-class museums, theater, sports teams or architecture of big cities like NY or SF, and it didn't have mountains or beaches, but it had the sweet spot of being much more affordable so that you could actually enjoy these things a lot more. You could afford to live centrally and enjoy things like Town Lake, downtown, the good smaller museums and theaters we do have, etc. at a fraction of NY/SF prices. That bargain no longer works. Austin is expensive AF right now, especially housing, but its amenities and geography still lag what bigger cities offer. 2. Saying "Austin is where ambition goes to die" is a bit harsh, but there's also a lot of truth to it. People often move to Austin specifically because they're looking for a better work/life balance than other places. Young people move to Silicon Valley or NYC because they have big dreams and are willing to work insane amounts to try to achieve them (even if it means lots of other parts of their life suffer). I don't think Austin's focus is "bad", but it is noticeably different compared to NY or SF. 3. Obviously Austin has always been hot in the summer (I used to say we paid for our 10 months of great weather with 2 months of hell), but this summer was the worst by many objective metrics in a long, long time, and it's only going to get worse over the long run. Obviously everything ebbs and flows, and after feeling like Austin was a "meme stock" over the past few years (tons of crypto bros, Musk fans and real estate investors moved here shortly before/during the pandemic), it's nice to see things calming down. Still, just looking objectively, I think there are a lot more cities now that offer a way better "bargain" than Austin does at the moment.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  > 2. Saying "Austin is where ambition goes to die" is a bit harsh, but there's also a lot of truth to it. People often move to Austin specifically because they're looking for a better work/life balance than other places. Young people move to Silicon Valley or NYC because they have big dreams and are willing to work insane amounts to try to achieve them (even if it means lots of other parts of their life suffer). I don't think Austin's focus is "bad", but it is noticeably different compared to NY or SF. I've noticed this too, people don't directly say it's 'where second-rates and third-rates go', but there's definitely a sentiment.
drewcoo 3y ago
Hello, Austin. The PNW has been dealing with this for years. Happy to share!

53 points by CharlesW 3y ago

Robdel12 3y ago

Thank GOD. Please stop moving here then. And if you hate it, leave and take that annoying attitude with you.

photonbeam 3y ago
The housing is still comparatively cheap though, so while it might slow it wont stop
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Define "comparatively". Ricky dink suburban ranch homes that are anywhere remotely central, but otherwise nothing special, go for 1.3-1.5 million. Sure, that's cheaper than super in-demand places like the Bay Area, but (a) property taxes are much higher here because we have no state income tax, and (b) it may be cheaper on a per-dollar basis, but salaries here aren't usually as high as SF or NY, and we have way, way, way fewer amenities compared to those cities.
coding123 3y ago
This should be a top comment.
autotune 3y ago
The unofficial motto of Austin has been "don't move here" for something like at least the last decade I think.
- rbolkey 3y ago
  The unofficial infrastructure policy has explicitly been "if we don't build it, they won't come" since at least the 70s.
kelnos 3y ago
This is what I've been saying about the people in SF. While I feel for you, I hope they don't come back here. Every city, including SF and Austin, are better off without the people who don't actually want to live there.
- davidw 3y ago
  Maybe if the Bay Area started building enough housing, people who wanted to live there could do so.
  - antisthenes 3y ago
    Maybe the techies should form a union and lobby the local municipalities to relax the zoning laws. After all, some of that monopolistic rent should go to good uses.
    - davidw 3y ago
      There are groups working on this: * https://new.yimbyaction.org/ https://new.yimbyaction.org/ * https://cayimby.org/ https://cayimby.org/
tayo42 3y ago
The article says they are trying to... The rising interest rate thing sucks. People are trapped in their home, because an equal value home mortage would cost more. Then there isn't any supply, so prices go up, making it even harder, now even equivalent homes are less quality
dang 3y ago
Please don't take HN threads into regional flamewar, or any flamewar, no matter which region or group you have a problem with. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

photoGrant 3y ago

I moved to Austin post-pandemic (career move/not tech) from Chicago and I have my regrets. What I didn't realise was many of my disdains about Austin are exactly what the article says... Here ambition dies... Now I can't unsee.

bwb 3y ago
Can you explain, why does ambition die?
- lazide 3y ago
  They probably figured if they went somewhere that wasn’t big city and could just not have big city people in the way, everything would be better. Then they realized same shit, different flavor, albeit worse in many ways, and many of their problems/issues were within themselves all along. Tends to kill some of the enthusiasm and drive.
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    I moved to Austin in 2012 and left in 2020. What was great back then was that salaries were almost comparable but the COL was so much lower. Until 2016 or so, Austin had the best salary to COL ratio of tech towns in the country. But that all changed when the Californians started showing up en masse. Austin was never truly going to compete with SF on its perks, but it was a cool town that allowed people to live comfortably.
    - predictabl3 3y ago
      I absolutely love that Texas has managed to convince their citizens that the states' problems are definitely most certainly all those California transplants (that they encouraged to immigrate) and not the states own self inflicted bs.
    - majormajor 3y ago
      What companies were paying these comparable-to-the-Bay 2012 salaries? I left Texas around when you moved there and was not finding "almost comparable" salaries to the Bay Area in many places at all. It was a big part of why I left - very few of my costs increased anywhere near as much as my salary did, so I was able to save and invest far more money per year.

PhilipRoman 3y ago

Interesting to hear such a report from a San Francisco news site. I don't want to imply anything but perhaps they aren't the most reliable narrator in this case.

Simulacra 3y ago
I can see that although the expectation would be that a newspaper would truthfully report the views of those who have moved away, if anything to shine a spotlight on conditions that are driving residents to leave. If the narrator is more of the pessimistic type, then perhaps their motives are more personal, or the newspaper wishes to dissuade readers from leaving.

pix128 3y ago

> One company’s product lead pointed to thick traffic and unreliable public transportation. Another transplant cited the city’s 100-plus-degree heat, in what was one of the city’s most brutal summers since 2011, when only two days in July didn’t hit triple digits. Clearly not the brightest bunch it seems.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
extr0pian 3y ago
I've lived here (in Austin) for three years. My partner and I decided to move to smaller city in Washington state come November. There is a lot of things to like about Austin (and even Texas), but as someone who was born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, I don't think I can live here longterm. It's not just the heat, but there's definitely more unnecessarily oversized vehicles on the road with only a single occupant driving. I'll admit it may be all in my head and I only notice these things because I'm in a different environment, but it seems many people here don't user turn signals, run red lights, and are regularly looking down at their phone while driving their truck or SUV, all while driving 10-15mph over the speed limit in a residential area. /rant
- hhh 3y ago
  > are regularly looking down at their phone while driving their truck or SUV, all while driving 10-15mph over the speed limit in a residential area. I live in TN and this has been my everyday experience since I got my license in 2015.
  - extr0pian 3y ago
    Might simply be the new normal in all US cities then. Though more terrifying when it's someone doing it in a larger vehicle.
  - bradknowles 3y ago
    My dad lived in a Memphis, and his parents lived in Murfreesboro. I've done extensive driving in both of those areas, and the stretch of I-40 between them. My dad passed away a couple of years ago, but I haven't seen crazy drivers in TN that are as bad as the ones I've seen here in Texas. Somewhat crazy, yes. But not as bad.

blamazon 3y ago

The submitted URL [0] appears to be reporting on a longer article by Business Insider. [1, 2] [0]: https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/california-transplants-unhappy-exodus-austin-18343754.php https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/california-transplants-... [1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-moved-to-austin-regrets-2023-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/tech-workers-moved-to-austin... [2]: https://archive.ph/tK8iE https://archive.ph/tK8iE

screye 3y ago

> thick traffic and unreliable public transportation Can't imagine Bay Area residents complaining about traffic and bad public transport. > city’s 100-plus-degree heat Maybe should've googled Austin before moving ?

michaelhoffman 3y ago
The Bay Area has inadequate public transport for a metro of its size, but its utility is kind of another universe from the Austin's CapMetro.
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Austin’s public transit is an absolute joke compared to SF. It’s actually embarrassing how bad it is for a city it’s size, but that’s what you get when you live in an anti-tax area like Texas. Perhaps California taxes are too high, but at least some of them are being put to good use.
- jonahhorowitz 3y ago
  It's a myth that they pay low taxes in Texas. For most people the taxes are lower in CA (somewhat due to Prop 13).[0] [0] - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-taxed-less-texas-new-study-yes-catch https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-taxed-less-texas... [1] - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-california-higher-taxes-policy-b2161227.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-cali...
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    Which makes the decision not to fund things like public transit even more ridiculous. But then again, Texas refused to deploy its literal rainy day find when Harvey hit, so it really shouldn’t be that surprising.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > > It's a myth that they pay low taxes in Texas. > Which makes the decision not to fund things like public transit even more ridiculous. No, Texas still collects far less taxes and has less money to spend, but at similar income levels, people (outside of the very high end of the distribution) pay higher taxes in Texas. California has more strongly progressive taxes and California has a higher income population, so it can collect a lot more total taxes (per capita, it has the #3 tax revenue per capita of the 50 states + DC) despite people at or below (and up to a fair amount above) US median income paying less in taxes than people making the same amount would in Texas.

tayo42 3y ago

I feel like there is a subset of people, these are vocal online, that think cheap houses and cheap col metrics are the pinnacle of life satisfaction. You get what you are paying for. If it was actually desirable to live in these places prices would go up.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago
The prices have already gone up. However, unlike the Bay which artificially restricts new builds and has the added benefit of that prop that locks property tax rates comically low Texas has neither. There's an abundance of land to build in almost any direction. There isn't a cancerous NIMBY voting block that prevents new high rises. And more importantly, property taxes can go as high as or low as needed which keep downward pressure on home prices. The unfortunate thing is, there is plenty of land to build in San Francisco. What there isn't available is the political will to turn those sprawling hills of nothing into new homes or to upzone areas currently. I love San Francisco and think it has immense potential, but the place has become awful in terms of its CoL.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  > And more importantly, property taxes can go as high as or low as needed which keep downward pressure on home prices. The major downside of this is that it forces out the lower income folks who originally owned the property. I saw so many families who bought houses 40-50 years ago in Austin who had to leave because of the property tax increases. If you’re serious about laying down roots in a town like Austin, you have to be prepared for wild increases in property taxes, which can really eat into your portfolio long term.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    I mean, it's really hard to feel that bad for folks. People say it's about the property taxes, but a lot of people also saw that their property values tripled in a few years and were more than happy to cash in that winning lottery ticket, and I certainly don't blame them.

abernard1 3y ago

I find this a positive development. The people that moved to Austin from California are conformists. The disappointment they experience is what happens when they are not surrounded by the concentrated capital that makes their (relative boring and mundane) jobs seem more important than they are. Austin will be just fine without the herds of "talent" that stuff overfinanced Series-C "startups."

xcrunner529 3y ago
Do you live in Texas?

moomoo11 3y ago

Nowhere else is as nice as California, especially the coast. That is a fact, and people can try as hard as possible to deflect and "what about -" but nobody cares. The truth is, California is an amazing place to live. It is hard to afford (I'm moving out because its too expensive) but I'm going to come back once my bank is full again lol.

alyandon 3y ago
I spent some time in southern California as a software dev contractor during the dotcom heyday of the 90s. I was renting in one of the more affluent areas and it was clean, had great venues within walking distance, great weather, people in general didn't seem to have gigantic political sticks up their asses, etc. It also had horrible traffic on the highways and cost of living was easily about 2x as much as living in Austin in the same era. Overall, I enjoyed the experience in California - probably isn't the same these days though.
hijinks 3y ago
while some might disagree with the politics of CA and that's their reason given the chance if affordable, a lot of people would choose to live in CA and around on the of the 3 coastal cities. We moved from NYC->SF->Denver->San Diego and CA always pulled us back once we left. My wife isn't from the US and from a third world country. She said something that stuck with me. You have people in her country that wanted nothing but the chance to live in the US and then you had those that hated it and laughed at everything wrong with the country. She said they secretly would move in a second if they won the green card lotto but just make fun of it because they will never get a chance to move to the US. I have a feeling CA is a bit of the same for some people.
rascul 3y ago
> That is a fact No, it's an opinion.
stanford_labrat 3y ago
As someone who has been to nearly all 50 states I’m going to have to disagree. California CAN be nice, but overall is overrated and most definitely not the “best”. Even under the understanding that each state has its own advantages and disadvantages, California still does not top out in a simple ranked list imo.

programmarchy 3y ago

This article glosses over the reason people moved to Texas in 2020-2021. It had nothing to do with tech or public transportation.

abernard1 3y ago
These news sources don't actually care. If you've followed SF news for any length of time, what you'll realize is how extremely thin-skinned they are about any criticism. "Doom loop!? Stop making it worse." As if bad press is the root of the problems they face. What that regional tech industry morphed into post dotcom-bubble was a machine that required interchangeable, replaceable butts in seats to financialize existing business models. The city of SF, the Bay Area region, and California as a whole recognize this centrality was key to their successes and less about talent than they'd wish. The VC community there, which is notoriously trendy and short-term, realizes that they have no leverage or advantage without that concentration. Hence the panic (that's been going on well before COVID).

ProllyInfamous 3y ago

My father was a born Austinite [St. David's] — he raised me in Cuernavaca (just outside city limits, west of Austin). We are both relics of a 20th century Hill Country, which time has now changed (inevitably, as always happens): I am grateful to have moved away from my childhood memories of not having to purchase tickets in order to enjoy so many of the natural water features around town. I live outside Texas, with no plans to return. ¢¢ — I'll get off my [own] lawn, now. Enjoy ATX's modern fluorishings! All are welcome to make anywhere Something.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

Outside of the obvious bias of a site with SF in it bashing Austin. I'm going to tell the tale of two people. One is a product manager for apple in Cupertino and the other is a product manager for some random non FAANG tech company in Austin. Both of these guys make $200k which is a healthy salary. The one guy at Apple, who clearly has a job that has a lot of glory, lives in a 1k sq ft 2 bedroom apartment that cost him $500k. His wife and kid live in Cleveland (to be close to family). He spends 5 days a week in San Francisco and flies back to Cleveland on the weekends to see his wife and kids. His commute is 5 minutes to Apple but he flies out of SFO Friday night (gets into Cleveland around 11pm) and then flies on Sunday after noon and gets back to San Francisco around 8pm. They also did this because his kids would have gone to abysmal Cupertino schools since he could afford a better place zoned for better schools. The other PM lives in a 3k square foot 5 bedroom house in Austin where he gets to see his kids and wife every day. His daily commute is 20 minutes. In case you didn't pick up on it, I'm the PM that lives in Austin and my friend is the Apple PM. I have him over right now for the holiday weekend and i've never seen him more miserable. He told when he sees his kids they change so much each and every week. He admitted that even with his salary, the travel, and paying 2 mortgages (one for San Francisco and one for Cleveland) him and his wife have nothing at the end of each month (thanks to CA taxes). He looks like he aged several years from this lifestyle. He won't be able to take a real vacation back to his home in the UK to visit family because he can't afford it. My friend is trying to get Apple to let him work out of the campus here in Austin. Look, I love San Francisco but it has long ceased to be a place where you can raise a family. If you're young (or old and don't care about having a family) and don't mind the rat race, then treat it like you would any over priced metro area. Make your money and GTFO. In the meantime, I absolutely love Austin. I'm loving the heat, my commute, my house (owning a house in either LA or SF, haha funny), and more importantly spending time with my family in my backyard with the sprinkler. There's more to life than this rat race and the chill atmosphere of this town is a dream. I wish I never moved to California after my stint abroad.

threatofrain 3y ago
Abysmal Cupertino schools are among the best public schools. Half the math faculty in the local high school are Calculus teachers, because half of the student body is on the fastest math track. A good number of students continue their high school math education at the local community college. Of course you can always get better like Proof School, where your kids take Linear Algebra without having to walk to a local community college. Also, is $200k actually right for a PM's base salary? My friend who comes from a non-traditional background recently broke into the tech industry by joining Amazon for $180k as a junior. My other friends at similar big companies have similar offers.

stevespang 3y ago

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7thaccount 3y ago

Yeahhh. If you're used to the climate of the West Coast, the South (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama...etc) is going to be absolute hell for you. If they're thinking about going hiking or doing outdoors stuff, you generally can't do that for significant portions of the year without suffering. Most of these places require you to drive everywhere too. The only real public transportation in 99% of the south are buses and you generally would only do that if you had no other options. On the plus side. There are a lot of California transplants in my area that figured out they could sell their home for millions, build a new copy in my area on a lake with nearly zero crime, and still pocket a million dollars.

bradknowles 3y ago
Buses are meant to take you to school. Which could even be the local college or University. They're not used for much else here in Texas. Commuter trains exist in a couple of narrow corridors, but they have very few stops, and are meant to take you downtown. If your office isn't downtown, then public transport isn't going to be of much help to you.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  You can take buses within the cities (not something I'd recommend), but yeah. If you live in a suburb, there is no way to get anywhere without driving.

pengaru 3y ago

A fellow IRC lurker lives near Austin and we often compared outdoor temps this summer whenever he was complaining about the heat. Despite my being in the California hi-desert by JTNP, he was often hotter - with more humidity on top of it. There's definitely a hype bubble surrounding Austin blinding people to the realities of living in the region.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

Sure, it's pretty easy to make fun of transplants complaining "Austin is so hot!", but as someone who has lived here for a quarter century, I think many of these complaints are valid, and, at least for me, "the bloom is off the rose" when it comes to Austin, and the past 5 years or so have seen a notable deterioration in Austin's appeal: 1. When I moved here in the late 90s, there was "the grand bargain" of Austin: it didn't have the amenities like world-class museums, theater, sports teams or architecture of big cities like NY or SF, and it didn't have mountains or beaches, but it had the sweet spot of being much more affordable so that you could actually enjoy these things a lot more. You could afford to live centrally and enjoy things like Town Lake, downtown, the good smaller museums and theaters we do have, etc. at a fraction of NY/SF prices. That bargain no longer works. Austin is expensive AF right now, especially housing, but its amenities and geography still lag what bigger cities offer. 2. Saying "Austin is where ambition goes to die" is a bit harsh, but there's also a lot of truth to it. People often move to Austin specifically because they're looking for a better work/life balance than other places. Young people move to Silicon Valley or NYC because they have big dreams and are willing to work insane amounts to try to achieve them (even if it means lots of other parts of their life suffer). I don't think Austin's focus is "bad", but it is noticeably different compared to NY or SF. 3. Obviously Austin has always been hot in the summer (I used to say we paid for our 10 months of great weather with 2 months of hell), but this summer was the worst by many objective metrics in a long, long time, and it's only going to get worse over the long run. Obviously everything ebbs and flows, and after feeling like Austin was a "meme stock" over the past few years (tons of crypto bros, Musk fans and real estate investors moved here shortly before/during the pandemic), it's nice to see things calming down. Still, just looking objectively, I think there are a lot more cities now that offer a way better "bargain" than Austin does at the moment.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
> 2. Saying "Austin is where ambition goes to die" is a bit harsh, but there's also a lot of truth to it. People often move to Austin specifically because they're looking for a better work/life balance than other places. Young people move to Silicon Valley or NYC because they have big dreams and are willing to work insane amounts to try to achieve them (even if it means lots of other parts of their life suffer). I don't think Austin's focus is "bad", but it is noticeably different compared to NY or SF. I've noticed this too, people don't directly say it's 'where second-rates and third-rates go', but there's definitely a sentiment.

drewcoo 3y ago

Hello, Austin. The PNW has been dealing with this for years. Happy to share!