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Thailand has a similar system - you use your banking app to scan a QR code, either the code is generated and has the amount included or it's printed static pape
by bayesianbot 3y ago
Thailand has a similar system - you use your banking app to scan a QR code, either the code is generated and has the amount included or it's printed static paper and you write the amount yourself, then show the receipt to the merchant or they check the notification in their phone. Started in 2017, nowadays it's everywhere, I can go to local market and pay $0.5 products with it. My 12 year old daughter opened her own account as well and didn't need my help, only installed an app and went to ATM that has a special slot for ID card to verify identity. Quite convenient as no need to carry cash anymore.
- bheadmaster 3y agoQuite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)
- LiamPowell 3y agoWhy could this not also be done with currently used card systems?
- piuantiderp 3y agoMostly because the systems are old, limited in the amount of data they generate.
- alexchamberlain 3y agoThey are definitely generating and analysing this data in the US. I believe the data protection laws in the UK and EU prevent it here, at least to the scale. There is no doubt it could be done though - it's the same basic technology with a different transport mechanism and/or intermediary.
- bheadmaster 3y agoIt could, if you're paying everything with the card. But you always have an option to go to an ATM and pick up some untracable cash. I assume these apps don't provide such an option.
- apienx 3y agoIt’s an option…for now. In 2016, India demonetized bills as low as 500 Rupees (the equivalent of $6). People died in the ensuing chaos, and the Supreme Court just that ruled in favor of the demonetisation.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nopinsight 3y agoI agree than tracking detailed purchase data can lead to serious discrimination and inequity especially in a dictatorship. The use case in your example, however, seems fair: * The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a daredevil speed, they should pay a higher premium. * This is different than discrimination based on involuntary characteristics. If someone is born with genetic predisposition to get cancer, or happens to grow up in a city with high carcinogen level, it’s arguably a lot less fair to charge them extras.
- 9991 3y agoWhy should I subsidize parents who choose to raise kids in carcinogenic cities?
- nopinsight 3y agoThe data might not be available at the time. And the person did not have a choice when they were a child. Is the above question rhetorical or do you lean more libertarian?
- ztrww 3y agoI don’t see their point much different from what you described in your comment.
- arapacana 3y agoThe hubris of this is phenomenal. People have ancestral homes in places that have become carcinogenic because of industrial activity they didn't ask for, the best job opportunities are often in places that you must go to in order for your family to have the best opportunities possible. The amount of privilege in asking this question is just shocking. As if people can so easily choose where they live. Try telling miners and nomadic construction workers that.
- bheadmaster 3y ago
- ryanjshaw 3y agoThis is already a thing, but it works the other way around. Here in South Africa, the largest private short-term health insurer gives you up to 75% cash back for 'healthy food choices' [1] i.e. they effectively reduce your premiums if you signal that you make healthier choices than other people in the fund. The law in South Africa says that short-term health insurers can't charge different people different premiums, so this is an 'add-on cashback scheme'. They integrate with 2 big supermarket chains: when you pay with a credit card issued by the insurer's banking partner, your discounts are automatically processed on a line-by-line product level. They also integrate with a fast food chain in the same way, Nandos, and give you a discount for selecting the 'healthier' food choices on the menu. [1] https://www.discovery.co.za/vitality/help-healthyfood-healthycare https://www.discovery.co.za/vitality/help-healthyfood-health...
- robertlagrant 3y agoVitality has spread from SA! I was over there for a few years and used them there, but now I'm back in the UK and have their life insurance.
- kilotaras 3y ago> This is already a thing, but it works the other way around. Sorry for being pedantic, but charging "bad customers" $XXX and charging everyone $XXX more, whilst giving everyone but "bad customer" $XXX back, are equivalent.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- krab 3y agoOnly if everyone participates. You'll generally have a third group of "unknown behavior customers". Then it makes a difference what the default price is.
- Ylpertnodi 3y agoBuy healthy with card. Fags, booze and McD's in cash. Or, a different card.
- hexo 3y agoOh yea, privacy nightmare! Enjoy. I'm out.
- skrebbel 3y agoHow would my insurer get access to my payment history?
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoYou will give it to them voluntarily for a massive discount. (-:
- Vinnl 3y agoOr phrased differently, you'll have to pay extra to keep it from them.
- bheadmaster 3y agoAs long as the information exists somewhere on a server, getting access to it is just a matter of politics.
- csomar 3y agoAll countries of SEA have similar systems (even Laos and Cambodia). The one managed by Malaysia now can work in Thailand, Singapore and Indonesia too. I think in the next 3-4 years, these wallets will support inter-change across all ASEAN.
- Grimburger 3y agoThe interop with banking across SEA is pretty cool now, most countries have cross border payments with nothing more than a QR code. And this is down to the hawker stall level. It's advancing a lot quicker than you'd expect given that many of the countries aren't really that good at coordinating with each other.
- kmlx 3y agowhy didn’t these countries go the NFC route instead of QR codes?
- maven29 3y agoQR code still works when either end is low-tech (paper/wearable/sticker), by using out-of-band means (SMS/soundbox) to confirm the transaction. Further, NFC is usually the first to be left out when manufacturers cut costs to hit lucrative price points. Apple never implemented host card emulation (HCE) as an API, but that doesn't matter as these payment systems usually aren't backed by a payment card network, thus they'd have to build needlessly complex reconcilliation systems when transactions already debit directly from accounts, and offline usage isn't considered a major use-case.
- xbmcuser 3y agoNfc needs a special chip qr code needs just a picture and camera. Makes a huge difference in infrastructure cost. Getting millions of shops to put in nfc terminals compared to get them to print qr codes makes adoption a lot faster
- petesergeant 3y agoTo build on the other comments, because anyone can just print up their QR code. Somchai the Tuk-Tuk driver can simply print the QR code for his personal bank account and glue it to the roof of his Tuk-Tuk and now he accepts electronic payments.
- nexus7556 3y agoIt’s frustrating though since most foreigners can’t use the QR payment system and most places don’t take card. Thailand is the only place I need to carry cash.