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>but the efficacy of tiny drones seems questionable. Head on over to /r/RussiaUkraineWar2022 and you can see first person video of kamikaze drones being flown
by nvy 3y ago
>but the efficacy of tiny drones seems questionable.
Head on over to /r/RussiaUkraineWar2022 and you can see first person video of kamikaze drones being flown into hapless Russians on the regular.
These are quadcopters with a high explosive or anti-armor round zip tied to it. They get directly into the entrance of dugouts or directly into the back of a speeding truck full of troops.
It seems to me the ultimate in precision munitions. Warheads literally on foreheads.
What's more it seems very difficult to defend against. There's the "anti drone rifle" that's basically a jammer on an assault rifle chassis, but the armies of today need widespread anti-drone jamming over huge areas, not point defense.
- rainworld 3y agohapless Russians Or, you know, hapless Ukrainians. Ukrainians may have been quicker to innovate in this area but that was a long time ago.
- nvy 3y ago>Or, you know, hapless Ukrainians. Ukrainians may have been quicker to innovate in this area but that was a long time ago. What's your point?
- chrisco255 3y agoBoth sides use the drones. It's not a strategic advantage.
- rainworld 3y agoIndeed. There’s a pervasive social media-fuelled notion of superiority in this area that does not reflect reality. It hardly gets more one-sided than /r/RussiaUkraineWar2022.
- nvy 3y agoI don't think I suggested the Ukrainians have superiority at all. If anything the fact that the Russians, despite their staggering incompetence, can employ drones effectively suggests that this new weapon system is an even more significant threat. As for my choice of subreddit, I'm well aware that it's biased. But I'd rather watch Russian occupiers get killed than Ukrainians fighting for their right to exist.
- rainworld 3y agodespite their staggering incompetence Easy on the hubris.
- nvy 3y agoYour precious Russia went from "we'll take Kyiv in 3 days" to, more than a year later, still being unable to achieve air superiority and fielding T-55 museum pieces as its soldiers eat moldy rations. That is complete and utter incompetence from what everyone thought was a major global power.
- _kbh_ 3y ago> Both sides use the drones. It's not a strategic advantage. It may not be, but only one side is using them to inflict damage that is upwards of 100M+ USD at a time (on occasion). The Russian use of drones appears to be less effective then the Ukrainian use for whatever reason. Its crazy that a 100k drone can destroy planes that are worth tens of millions of dollars that kind of price difference will surely change some ways that wars are fought.
- rainworld 3y agoon occasion Exactly. These are stunts designed to keep morale high, in Ukraine and the West. Their impact on the outcome of the war is negligible. These are Ukraine + NATO dealing as much damage as they think they can get away with. And Russia absorbing the blows because the alternative—open conflict with NATO and curtailing the freedoms of millions of Ukrainians in Russia[0]—is considered a worse option. For now at least. The Russian use of drones appears to be less effective then the Ukrainian use for whatever reason. But thanks to the censorship in place we wouldn’t know, would we? In fact, Ukrainian officials have admitted more than once that the Russians know exactly what they are hitting. And the effectiveness of Ukrainian air defense is obviously way exaggerated.[1] The fact that Ukrainians have admittedly lost more than one fighter jet trying to shoot down drones and cruise missiles is telling. will surely change some ways that wars are fought Yes. No one is safe from this, every defense can be (fairly cheaply) overwhelmed. But the situation here is unique in that Ukrainians can pretend they are not paying the price, and Russia does not respond with significant escalation. For now at least. As for NATO, well, they are paying a price. Bunkers containing NATO officers have been busted. Flimsy cover stories of freak accidents. Remember that B-2 going up in flames? Happened shortly after the attacks on Russian nuclear bases. Predictable, professional, restrained. All in all it’s something, but not enough to deter NATO, or even stop them from escalating slowly. But then "Putin is someone who generally thinks that revenge is a dish best served cold," [CIA director] Burns said at an annual security forum in Aspen. [0]: For these attacks usually have a local component. And from the flight patterns of NATO planes we can tell that Western ISR is essential to attacks on Crimea, for example. [1]: A thing never talked about is the price paid by civilians. For there is a cost if you do AD over populated areas, you are trading civilians for military targets. Which, 18 months in, shouldn’t be located in cities in the first place. Random impacts of AD missiles, both Soviet and Western, are well documented. As are impacts of debris and downed missiles/drones, of course.
- deeviant 3y agoWhat exact point are you trying to make? Why do you say the innovation was a long time ago? Drone warfare, on both sides, is literally evolving before our very eyes on daily basis. All the words militaries are taking extensive notes and it's pretty obvious the small scale drones are the future of warfare, or at least the ability to deal with them.
- ThrowawayR2 3y ago-brrt- Drone swarm, what drone swarm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8 And this is simply the first iteration of such systems. Drones are slow (slower than WW2 aircraft), short ranged, and not particularly stealthy. Improving any of those aspects raises the price significantly, defeating the point of cheap drones. They are a threat but not as magical as some seem to imagine.
- rcme 3y agoBut they’re so cheap that you can overrun your opponents defense. Who cares if they’re slow? You can shoot down any individual drone, but you can’t shoot them all down.
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoCheaper than a bullet? Seems unlikely. And if the attacker's drone swarm is that implausibly cheap, then the defender just puts up their own implausibly cheap defensive drone swarm to counter them. Checkmate.
- rcme 3y agoHow can you take down a drone with a single bullet? It’s not trivially easy to shoot them down. Also, a “defensive” drone swarm would need more advanced tracking and targeting capabilities, so it would be more expensive. Look at Israel’s Iron Dome. A single interception costs $100,000-$150,000. The rockets being intercepted cost less than $1,000. If Israel was more evenly matched, it would be cost prohibitive to intercept all of the rockets.
- aoki 3y agoThe US just announced that it is buying off-the-shelf anti-drone systems for Ukraine that operate chain guns in single-shot mode. Drones are slow so they can use VT rounds instead of the CIWS spray-and-track method. https://eos-aus.com/defence/counter-drone-systems/slinger/ https://eos-aus.com/defence/counter-drone-systems/slinger/
- marcosdumay 3y agoWell, large area jamming is kind of a solved problem. But then, you'll need to protect the jammers, and that's an arms race. If nobody is developing large area jammers and autonomous anti-jammer drones on that war, it would be from lack of perceived benefit, because neither is a ground braking engineering project.
- tguvot 3y agorussians have large area jammers. the problem that it jams their own stuff. they also fly drone with some jammers and sdrs in order to detect presence of other drones also, i saw some clip, Ukrainians are working on automated "final approach/chase" mode for drones.
- Gud 3y agoA competent military would not jam their own drones. It would be possible to synchronize the required frequency hopping to allow the encrypted communication to the drone.
- tguvot 3y agounits that manage large jammers afraid to stay near front line. so they usually positioned somewhat behind and jam the hell out of everything, including their own radio communications and drones. "would be possible" implies that there is some kind of coordination. in reality most of russian drones on frontline are diy as well. for Ukrainians when jamming stops it's a tale sign that russians are going to attack
- Gud 3y agoI understand how it works for the Russians, but we are discussing the US military and their capabilities which is far ahead of what the Russians are capable of.
- tastyfreeze 3y agoA shotgun is pretty effective at downing a drone. But, that requires seeing it coming before it is inside.
- hodgesrm 3y ago> What's more it seems very difficult to defend against. Perhaps a better word than "difficult" is "expensive." If drones are effective modern armies have no choice about defending against them. (Unless they want to lose.)