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Reminds me of an anecdote about Bell Labs. Someone calculated who the most productive employees were (based on things like patents received), and found that man
by jamestimmins 3y ago
Reminds me of an anecdote about Bell Labs. Someone calculated who the most productive employees were (based on things like patents received), and found that many of them would eat lunch with the same person. That person wasn't individually very productive, but he would always ask thoughtful, compelling questions that in turn made his coworkers measurably more productive.
- Erikun 3y agoIt might be from the great book The Idea Factory by Jon Gertner (p 135). 'In the midst of Shannon’s career, some lawyers in the patent department at Bell Labs decided to study whether there was an organizing principle that could explain why certain individuals at the Labs were more productive than others. They discerned only one common thread: Workers with the most patents often shared lunch or breakfast with a Bell Labs electrical engineer named Harry Nyquist. It wasn’t the case that Nyquist gave them specific ideas. Rather, as one scientist recalled, “he drew people out, got them thinking.” More than anything, Nyquist asked good questions.'
- avanai 3y agoThe most impressive thing about this story is that they figured out the answer. They did the research, and nailed down that it was Nyquist who was was the productivity booster. It’s the exact opposite of the OP’s story, where management tried to fire the Nyquist-equivalent.
- Tarq0n 3y agoThey found an answer that felt right to them. The reseachers weren't blinded to the context they were working in, and their hypothesis is essentially unfalsifiable so I would take it with a grain of salt.
- Strilanc 3y agoHonestly, I'm kind of skeptical of the answer. I'm not saying that talking with Nyquist wouldn't be useful, probably it was, but what's stopping a dozen other things at least that useful from being part of the answer?
- jacquesm 3y ago> I'm not saying that talking with Nyquist wouldn't be useful No, you probably shouldn't be saying that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Nyquist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Nyquist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency > but what's stopping a dozen other things at least that useful from being part of the answer? Because someone needs to act, and that's exactly what Nyquist did, in a very unobtrusive and non-confrontational manner.
- edgyquant 3y agoPosting his achievements does nothing to prove speaking with him during lunch was useful in this context > Because someone needs to act, and that's exactly what Nyquist did, in a very unobtrusive and non-confrontational manner Seems like your headcanon. It reality they ate lunch together and passed ideas around.
- Strilanc 3y agoFor the record, I did recognize the name. That's why I believed talking to them was useful.
- OJFord 3y agoConcretely I'd suggest that Nyquist was probably most interested in lunching with other smart people who had interesting things to talk about. I.e. there's no check or control on their output without lunch or breakfast with him, maybe it'd have been little different.
- liquidpele 3y agoAll they figured out was that the smart people hung out together.
- sound1 3y agoIMHO this is the right answer :)
- solumunus 3y agoIt’s a lovely story but a prime candidate for “correlation !== causation”.
- jamestimmins 3y agoYeah that's the one! Thanks for finding the reference.
- agumonkey 3y agoYou also need a fertile soil. In many many places, curiosity, exploration is passively frowned upon.
- tfgg 3y agoHarry Nyquist isn't exactly an unknown engineer who doesn't have his own achievements, though - not sure why people are saying he would be fired in a modern company!
- worik 3y agoIn the modern company good engineers are not valued. Engineering excellence is not a prerequisite to business success. Managers know this. Why else many things any one of us could list from the computing business.
- progmetaldev 3y agoI agree with you 100%. Management does not have an eye for software that is easy to maintain and continue to make money on 5 or 10 years down the line. Most management is thinking short term, how do I get money in MY pocket right NOW. Who cares how the business does in the long term, they'll jump ship and move on. It is the engineering that often makes a difference for long lived companies, it's just that usually the engineers and/or management isn't around long enough to reap the rewards. I try to balance engineering with product cost (I'm lucky enough where I can see the "numbers"). I try to give more to the clients that pay more, or at least create something that I can reuse in the future, while making sure what I deliver is stable and not a big ball of spaghetti to make the next developer/engineer cry at night.
- worik 3y ago> ... 5 or 10 years down the line. Most management is thinking short term, Woe is us. Five or ten years is not considered short term > . I try to give more to the clients that pay more, or at least create something that I can reuse in the future, while making sure what I deliver is stable and not a big ball of spaghetti to make the next developer/engineer cry at night. I am not sure about the "...who pay more". As I am currently woefully underpaid I am more sympathetic to that view than once I was, but, I still view myself as a professional, and I act with professional ethics. Partly that means speaking up when I see a project going near the rocks. I do not make too much fuss, but I do say it out loud. That has cost me plenty. Our industry is full of people who are very good at one thing or another, but do not know their limits. Part of my "being professional" is knowing my own limits.
- vantassell 3y agoReminds me of the adage of “solving the problem is the hard part, the hard part is figuring out the right problem to solve”. I always remember as “questions are harder than answers”.
- robertlagrant 3y agoRumour has it Nyquist was promised to be on 18 breakfasts a day to placate investors after a slow quarter.
- throwaway2037 3y agoWiki says it is this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Nyquist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Nyquist Woah. He has a huge list of "Known for"!
- agumonkey 3y agoThat kind of people was somehow mentioned in Peopleware. A group of people is a subtle structure, and good team spirit, good questions can improve things "invisibly".
- andai 3y agoThat is a catalyst!
- psunavy03 3y agoFor all a lot of people dump on Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches . . . this is part of who the good ones are supposed to be.
- rramadass 3y agoOh No! Good people amplifiers are domain/technical experts; Scrum Masters/Agile Coaches are neither.
- cheekibreeki2 3y agoIf anything many seem super green with 1-2 years tech experience.
- psunavy03 3y agoThe plural of "anecdote" is not "data."
- psunavy03 3y agoI'm sure your bubble is a wonderful place for you to exist. I can't speak for anyone who has to interact with you, but inside of it, I'm sure it's great.
- rramadass 3y agoI could echo the same sentiment. At this point i think it is rather well established; eg. "Taskmasters" in - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
- psunavy03 3y agoIt's basically a trope on this site for everyone to imply that everyone who doesn't have their fingers in code 8+ hours a day has a so-called "bullshit job," as if developers don't work for businesses which have to earn money, so forgive my skepticism. And yes . . . I do code.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 3y agoThis type of person needs to start a company, they never get paid a fair wage otherwise
- tacocataco 3y agoTrue for most of the working class, whose surplus labor value is siphoned away by capital.
- closeparen 3y agoDo people honestly think this kind of thing replicates with formally scheduled Zoom 1:1s? I don’t.
- lizard 3y agoI don't know about you, but I don't tend to have breakfast and lunch over Zoom. While I did go out to lunch with coworkers more often while working in the office it was almost exclusively with direct teammates, and other groups I occasionally saw where also on the same team. Now that I'm fully remote, I will typically do a few "hacking sessions" over Zoom every week. Its much easier and more comfortable than standing over their shoulder in tiny cubes we used to have. That said, especially now that i am fully remote, I've been trying and mostly failing to get developers especially across teams to talk and collaborate more. But its not too suprising: I was recently in a call and I was introduced to another developer who I replied, "Yeah, I know you. I was in the cube next to you for 2 years and on your team for 6 months." Remote creates some new challenges, but its a culture thing, not a technology thing.
- riffraff 3y agoFWIW, I schedule coffee with colleagues over zoom. It's not the same as having lunch together but it is enjoyable and useful.
- lizard 3y agoYou know, after I wrote this I got to thinking, "Why don't I have have more social Zoom calls?" The answer is that I never was good at social things like inviting people to coffee. But it doesn't help that we're taught to "protect" our time and avoid unnecessary calls and meetings. Presumably so we can write more lines of code, close more tickets, or earn more points like the story and other anecdotes here. I think I may try something new in my calendar. Worst case I'll end up sitting in front of my computer alone with a block for the next hour and nothing to do but work on all those things I need to do anyways.
- chiph 3y ago