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I think that thanks to your valiant efforts to remain cell phone free you seem to have missed the memo that the "not too distant future" you described arrived l

I think that thanks to your valiant efforts to remain cell phone free you seem to have missed the memo that the "not too distant future" you described arrived like a decade ago lol. We're well into the "smartphones are a human right" era

ThinkingGuy 3y ago
Oh, it hasn't taken any effort on my part. I've just always been fortunate enough to have: -Always lived in a house with a phone -Always worked at a business with a phone -Never been important enough that anyone needed to reach me when I wasn't at home or at work
- alex_duf 3y ago
  Honest question: how do you stay in touch with friends?
  - simoncion 3y ago
    I'm not the OP, but for me it's email, phone calls, instant messaging, paper mail sometimes. Surely your pocket computer isn't your only computer? Like, you do own a computer with a physical keyboard, right? Pre-COVID, when I made plans to go out with folks, we arranged a time and place to meet, and, like, arrived at that place roughly around that time. It's pretty easy, really.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      >Surely your pocket computer isn't your only computer? Like, you do own a computer with a physical keyboard, right? More and more people, particularly the younger generations, don't have anything besides their smartphone because what's the point? It's additional expense, additional maintenance, additional clutter, additional mess. They can do everything they need on their phone.
      - flir 3y ago
        I know they're out there, hell my wife doesn't turn her laptop on from one week to the next, but I still find it hard to fathom. This is the gulf UX design is supposed to cross, I guess. Designing for people who engage with tech in utterly different ways to me.
        ghaff 3y ago
        There certainly is a gulf. On the one hand, I rarely use my smartphone at home because I have computers. On the other hand, I hear stories from parents at work whose kids don't want a computer because "Why would I need one? My phone works fine."
      - _w1tm 3y ago
        > More and more people, particularly the younger generations, don't have anything besides their smartphone because what's the point? It's additional expense, additional maintenance, additional clutter, additional mess. I’m 40 and if I wasn’t a software engineer I wouldn’t own a desktop / laptop computer. As you say, what’s the point? Everything except for software development can be done on a smartphone. Why even bother installing an instant messaging application on the computer when you can just take the phone out of the pocket instead of walking to the room where the computer happens to be? Even when I’m working at the computer I use the phone for music, messaging and news.
        albert_e 3y ago
        > Everything except for software development can be done on a smartphone. That sounds like a little too broad a generalization. A typical office worker who creates or consumes documents, presentations, accesses corporate apps (half of them still 90s tech with lipstick), submit proposals to clients, review others' work, attending multiple hours long zoom calls with screenshare, etc ... are still using at least 13" laptop screens to do a lot of their day to day work. Sure a sales executive or a senior manager might get away by just typing one liner commands to minions on their smartphone, hitting approve buttons on expense apps, and just listening into team calls, etc. -- but lower in the hierarchy where the real numbers and usage are ... we still have physical keyboards and mice, and decent sized screens (often multiple monitors) to help us stay productive.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I'd be far more inclined to assume someone didn't have a computer--or at least ready access to one--than didn't have a smartphone.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      I know several households which don't have a traditional laptop or desktop computer. Smartphones and maybe a tablet. Maybe a work-issued laptop, but usually that stays at the office and isn't for personal use.
  - ThinkingGuy 3y ago
    e-mail and my work phone. I'm a married man, so my wife does most of the social arrangements anyway. Recently I got a JMP.chat number so I could send and receive text messages, and have been very happy with it. When I leave my job and have to give up the work number, I'll probably break down and buy either a Pinephone or Librem (maybe there'll be other options by then).
- sorenjan 3y ago
  As you got to experience, smart phones aren't mainly phones, they're mobile computers with a phone app. They have Bluetooth that let's them connect to bikes close by, biometrics that let's them be used for relatively secure payment, modems that allows them to communicate with servers, GPS that makes it easy to see that you're not riding or parking the bike where you're not allowed, etc. If one person was able to unlock multiple bikes who is responsible for how the bike is used? A while back someone on a rented scooter hit an elderly man and then left the scene. He was found and convicted, because the scooter was personally rented by him. Don't expect to be able to use modern services if you don't want to meet the providers where they operate. It's like refusing to use a card and demanding everyone to use cash, you're going to limit yourself and it's your choice if you think it's worth it. I think limiting your goods and services to people with devices that have been available for more than two decades and are basically ubiquitous is a reasonable thing to do, considering the benefits that comes with it. Personally i very rarely talk on the phone, that's never been why I've used mobile phones. I listen to music and use offline maps with GPS far more, but I also use it for payment, camera, text messages, etc.
- vikramkr 3y ago
  In the same vein I think that people were making jokes about how it is even possible to use smart phones to make phone calls like 5 years ago lol. Wouldnt be shocked if some folks had not made a single phone call in the past 3 or 4 years. Smartphones are small mobile internet connected computer plus camera hybrids first, and also if you really want you could use them to make phone calls too I guess but you could drop that feature and the other 99% of the use vases people actually use smartphones for (work, reddit, YouTube, slack and other chat, internet browsing, apps, ordering food through delovery apps, etc) would be unaffected
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    The only outgoing phone call I've made within the past 12 months is to the taxi company when their app said there were no cars available. The person on the phone said the same thing, so the call was just a waste of time and money. I have gotten incoming phone calls, mostly from daycare when a kid has been sick.
jazzyjackson 3y ago
on the contrary, they are a decade ahead in insisting on their "freedom from technology"
- Ekaros 3y ago
  And they still want to use things like washing machines and electric scooters?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    To hell with mobile app only washing machines, dude. If that's the price of admission into the glorious future, I don't want no part of it. I went back to candy bar phone more than a decade ago and I barely use it.
    - heavenlyblue 3y ago
      Do you have any friends? I imagine they would hate next time you need to organise a trip and you can't join their group chat for coordination. Or are you one of these people who calls everyone for basically no reason when a message could suffice?
      - jazzyjackson 3y ago
        bro this may shock you but there's a whole contingent of people out there who still pick up the phone when their friends call and IME cats don't self organize into a herd, it's usually one person figuring out a time and place that works for everyone, unless you're one of those insufferable people who sends out a "when are you free" survey of checkboxes ;P
        ghaff 3y ago
        >there's a whole contingent of people out there who still pick up the phone when their friends call That's increasingly rare. My elderly dad still uses voice calling pretty much exclusively and there's a friend who I'll exchange voice calls with. But I don't think there's a single other person who would call me out of the blue socially absent an emergency--and at least some of these are people I would have regularly called 25 years or so ago. For that matter, no one at work would just call me on the phone either.
diego_sandoval 3y ago
Even if you have a smartphone and you carry it around with you, you're going to be blocked out from some services if you don't have access to either Apple's App Store or Google Play. I've had to shut down my accounts in two banks because of surprise app requirements (that weren't in the contract) for basic account functionality. Their apps are only available trough App Store and Google Play, no .apk alternative. And even if you install the apps using Aurora store, the app instantly crashes, I suppose because they implement Google's SafetyNet, or whatever it's called now. So, unless I want to buy and carry around an extra phone for completely bullshit reasons, I'm limited to only using one bank, the only one in my country that still doesn't require an app for the type of account I want. I've thought of buying a phone just for the apps, but after that, who knows with what other bullshit they may come up with (your device is too old, it doesn't have a phone number associated, etc), so I just give up.
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
  If you're in the EU, Bunq's app works perfectly installed from Aurora Store on GrapheneOS without Google Play Services.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >unless I want to buy and carry around an extra phone for completely bullshit reasons Owning a separate, dedicated piece of hardware for sensitive and critical activities (eg: banking) is a very good idea because it isolates them from all your other mundane, potentially risky activities. Most people don't do this because of the various inconveniences and expenses involved, but if you can tolerate them it's about as safe as digital activities can get.
  - exec1 3y ago
    It doesn’t take much effort to remain relatively safe on the internet so you don’t have to resort to dedicated hardware just for banking. Don’t install sketchy apps that you don’t need and stop clicking on every link that you see – that’s pretty much it. I found that this basic internet hygiene has a nice side benefit as well – it forms a habit of avoiding superfluous and/or crappy content altogether.
morelisp 3y ago
"Husband depends on wife to organize his life because of bullheadedness" isn't a particularly smartphone-era phenomenon either.
- vikramkr 3y ago
  That's also very true lol but if it works for them it works I guess
gambiting 3y ago
That's why it's so frustrating when people point at homeless people having smartphones and snarkily say oh they aren't really poor, why would they have a smartphone if "allegedly" they can't afford food. Well the answer is that in modern life it's literally impossible to access basic infrastructure of many places without a smartphone. It's an absolute necessity unless you want to be a nomad and live in the wilderness.
- imhoguy 3y ago
  Yep, that is common argument against refugees. "They come on foot with smartphones, they are not poor". They keep translator app, map, documents, priceless memories as photos, contacts with relatives - it is all they own apart of backpack of cloths. I wouldn't step onto another country's soil without that.
- jjgreen 3y ago
  I don't have a phone, I don't live as a nomad in the wilderness. Well, in London, which is a bit of a wilderness.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    I mean, cool? Fortunately in the UK a lot of services are still available offline, but it's rapidly changing.
- ahartmetz 3y ago
  Wasn't it 5-10 years ago that people said that? I think it's understood these days that smartphones are important to have (for better or for worse) and dirt cheap if you just need a smartphone, any smartphone.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    It was 10 years ago they were upset poor people had refrigerators. https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-appliances-downplay-hardship-poverty-america https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-...
mo_42 3y ago
> We're well into the "smartphones are a human right" era My government has to respect free speech but it doesn't mean I have to speak up. Just because something is a human right doesn't mean I have to execute it. I very much appreciate those people who live without smartphones. As a society, we need these people. It's not only about people with disabilities and other marginalized groups. It's about everyone. Last year, the smartphone of a friend of mine was stolen. Luckily, it was well protected. But still it was gone with all the 2F apps. This friend had to learn by example that those apps actually second factors. Also luckily, this person didn't enable 2F for Gmail. Otherwise it would have been much more trouble.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Lots of us probably come to rely too much on our smartphones. I still carry a little cash (and a few other things in a small wallet) and usually do things like print out trip itineraries but, even so, But, even so, I know if I lost/had stolen my smartphone on a trip there's still a lot more information I probably would wish I had with me.
  - dazc 3y ago
    I was robbed once in Spain, lost my laptop, tablet and passport. Thankfully, I retained my smartphone which made everything a lot easier to deal with. For instance, the local consulate was super helpful in getting me issued a temporary passport but I would have had a hell of a time even finding her without my phone.
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
So no network, no power, lost your phone, not battery, broke your phone, lock out of your phone, and you are not a human anymore?
- vikramkr 3y ago
  I don't think you understand what a human right is. If you don't have freedom of speech, you're not suddenly not human lol. The point is that if you're human you should have access to your rights, not the other way around which wouldn't make any sense
sneak 3y ago
What about people who buy the phone but don't want to participate in the contracts of adhesion that are the ToS of Apple or Google? Apple is making it harder and harder to use an Apple ID (required for the App Store) without using iCloud. iCloud is a privacy nightmare. We shouldn't have to give up our rights to privacy to participate in society.
- l33t7332273 3y ago
  Can you elaborate on iCloud’s privacy situation?
  - sneak 3y ago
    Most of iCloud is, by default, not end to end encrypted. The e2ee is opt in and approximately nobody uses it. Apple can and does read most of the data in iCloud (due to it lacking e2ee by default) including all your iMessages, all your iMessage attachments/photos, all your iCloud photos, all your call logs, all your iCloud files, all your contacts, calendars, etc. iMessage's e2ee is effectively backdoored by all the iMessage sync keys being backed up in the non-e2ee iCloud Backup. Apple turns over user data (including all of the aforementioned) for 17,000+ user accounts to the US government without a search warrant under the FISA (aka PRISM) system. They turn over even more user data on top of that each year when provided with actual search warrants - the 17k users figure is just the ones without search warrants! They don't protect most of the data in iCloud from themselves, and Apple is forced to spy for their national government thanks to Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act (FAA702), which allows the US to read anything in iCloud without probable cause or a search warrant - point and click access.
- jpttsn 3y ago
  > We shouldn't have to give up our rights to privacy to participate in society. Betrays fundamental misunderstanding of both.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    It is not society that wants you to give up privacy, it is a few rech giants, and all the small wannabes, that want you to. And they are basically able to, since those tech giants control all online aspects of modern society. Society so could step in via elected governments and stop this behaviour through laws. Not that I am holding my breath on this.
harry8 3y ago
> "smartphones are a human right" This works out as "You are required to carry your surveillance device at all times" Thanks to everyone who didn't care forcing the rest of us into being part of your turnkey facist dystopia. Who do you think will be turning that key? How long? 3 years? 5? 10?
- didntcheck 3y ago
  And increasingly attempts to resist the surveillance are being treated as suspicious and leading to access being blocked. Using a VPN is becoming increasingly difficult, with a lot of websites outright blocking you rather than giving a CAPTCHA, and more Android apps are requiring SafetyNet verification
akira2501 3y ago
Not having a smartphone is a human right.

ThinkingGuy 3y ago

Oh, it hasn't taken any effort on my part. I've just always been fortunate enough to have: -Always lived in a house with a phone -Always worked at a business with a phone -Never been important enough that anyone needed to reach me when I wasn't at home or at work

alex_duf 3y ago
Honest question: how do you stay in touch with friends?
- simoncion 3y ago
  I'm not the OP, but for me it's email, phone calls, instant messaging, paper mail sometimes. Surely your pocket computer isn't your only computer? Like, you do own a computer with a physical keyboard, right? Pre-COVID, when I made plans to go out with folks, we arranged a time and place to meet, and, like, arrived at that place roughly around that time. It's pretty easy, really.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >Surely your pocket computer isn't your only computer? Like, you do own a computer with a physical keyboard, right? More and more people, particularly the younger generations, don't have anything besides their smartphone because what's the point? It's additional expense, additional maintenance, additional clutter, additional mess. They can do everything they need on their phone.
    - flir 3y ago
      I know they're out there, hell my wife doesn't turn her laptop on from one week to the next, but I still find it hard to fathom. This is the gulf UX design is supposed to cross, I guess. Designing for people who engage with tech in utterly different ways to me.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        There certainly is a gulf. On the one hand, I rarely use my smartphone at home because I have computers. On the other hand, I hear stories from parents at work whose kids don't want a computer because "Why would I need one? My phone works fine."
    - _w1tm 3y ago
      > More and more people, particularly the younger generations, don't have anything besides their smartphone because what's the point? It's additional expense, additional maintenance, additional clutter, additional mess. I’m 40 and if I wasn’t a software engineer I wouldn’t own a desktop / laptop computer. As you say, what’s the point? Everything except for software development can be done on a smartphone. Why even bother installing an instant messaging application on the computer when you can just take the phone out of the pocket instead of walking to the room where the computer happens to be? Even when I’m working at the computer I use the phone for music, messaging and news.
      - albert_e 3y ago
        > Everything except for software development can be done on a smartphone. That sounds like a little too broad a generalization. A typical office worker who creates or consumes documents, presentations, accesses corporate apps (half of them still 90s tech with lipstick), submit proposals to clients, review others' work, attending multiple hours long zoom calls with screenshare, etc ... are still using at least 13" laptop screens to do a lot of their day to day work. Sure a sales executive or a senior manager might get away by just typing one liner commands to minions on their smartphone, hitting approve buttons on expense apps, and just listening into team calls, etc. -- but lower in the hierarchy where the real numbers and usage are ... we still have physical keyboards and mice, and decent sized screens (often multiple monitors) to help us stay productive.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I'd be far more inclined to assume someone didn't have a computer--or at least ready access to one--than didn't have a smartphone.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I know several households which don't have a traditional laptop or desktop computer. Smartphones and maybe a tablet. Maybe a work-issued laptop, but usually that stays at the office and isn't for personal use.
- ThinkingGuy 3y ago
  e-mail and my work phone. I'm a married man, so my wife does most of the social arrangements anyway. Recently I got a JMP.chat number so I could send and receive text messages, and have been very happy with it. When I leave my job and have to give up the work number, I'll probably break down and buy either a Pinephone or Librem (maybe there'll be other options by then).
sorenjan 3y ago
As you got to experience, smart phones aren't mainly phones, they're mobile computers with a phone app. They have Bluetooth that let's them connect to bikes close by, biometrics that let's them be used for relatively secure payment, modems that allows them to communicate with servers, GPS that makes it easy to see that you're not riding or parking the bike where you're not allowed, etc. If one person was able to unlock multiple bikes who is responsible for how the bike is used? A while back someone on a rented scooter hit an elderly man and then left the scene. He was found and convicted, because the scooter was personally rented by him. Don't expect to be able to use modern services if you don't want to meet the providers where they operate. It's like refusing to use a card and demanding everyone to use cash, you're going to limit yourself and it's your choice if you think it's worth it. I think limiting your goods and services to people with devices that have been available for more than two decades and are basically ubiquitous is a reasonable thing to do, considering the benefits that comes with it. Personally i very rarely talk on the phone, that's never been why I've used mobile phones. I listen to music and use offline maps with GPS far more, but I also use it for payment, camera, text messages, etc.
vikramkr 3y ago
In the same vein I think that people were making jokes about how it is even possible to use smart phones to make phone calls like 5 years ago lol. Wouldnt be shocked if some folks had not made a single phone call in the past 3 or 4 years. Smartphones are small mobile internet connected computer plus camera hybrids first, and also if you really want you could use them to make phone calls too I guess but you could drop that feature and the other 99% of the use vases people actually use smartphones for (work, reddit, YouTube, slack and other chat, internet browsing, apps, ordering food through delovery apps, etc) would be unaffected
- kalleboo 3y ago
  The only outgoing phone call I've made within the past 12 months is to the taxi company when their app said there were no cars available. The person on the phone said the same thing, so the call was just a waste of time and money. I have gotten incoming phone calls, mostly from daycare when a kid has been sick.

jazzyjackson 3y ago

on the contrary, they are a decade ahead in insisting on their "freedom from technology"

Ekaros 3y ago
And they still want to use things like washing machines and electric scooters?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- beebeepka 3y ago
  To hell with mobile app only washing machines, dude. If that's the price of admission into the glorious future, I don't want no part of it. I went back to candy bar phone more than a decade ago and I barely use it.
  - heavenlyblue 3y ago
    Do you have any friends? I imagine they would hate next time you need to organise a trip and you can't join their group chat for coordination. Or are you one of these people who calls everyone for basically no reason when a message could suffice?
    - jazzyjackson 3y ago
      bro this may shock you but there's a whole contingent of people out there who still pick up the phone when their friends call and IME cats don't self organize into a herd, it's usually one person figuring out a time and place that works for everyone, unless you're one of those insufferable people who sends out a "when are you free" survey of checkboxes ;P
      - ghaff 3y ago
        >there's a whole contingent of people out there who still pick up the phone when their friends call That's increasingly rare. My elderly dad still uses voice calling pretty much exclusively and there's a friend who I'll exchange voice calls with. But I don't think there's a single other person who would call me out of the blue socially absent an emergency--and at least some of these are people I would have regularly called 25 years or so ago. For that matter, no one at work would just call me on the phone either.

diego_sandoval 3y ago

Even if you have a smartphone and you carry it around with you, you're going to be blocked out from some services if you don't have access to either Apple's App Store or Google Play. I've had to shut down my accounts in two banks because of surprise app requirements (that weren't in the contract) for basic account functionality. Their apps are only available trough App Store and Google Play, no .apk alternative. And even if you install the apps using Aurora store, the app instantly crashes, I suppose because they implement Google's SafetyNet, or whatever it's called now. So, unless I want to buy and carry around an extra phone for completely bullshit reasons, I'm limited to only using one bank, the only one in my country that still doesn't require an app for the type of account I want. I've thought of buying a phone just for the apps, but after that, who knows with what other bullshit they may come up with (your device is too old, it doesn't have a phone number associated, etc), so I just give up.

ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
If you're in the EU, Bunq's app works perfectly installed from Aurora Store on GrapheneOS without Google Play Services.
Dalewyn 3y ago
>unless I want to buy and carry around an extra phone for completely bullshit reasons Owning a separate, dedicated piece of hardware for sensitive and critical activities (eg: banking) is a very good idea because it isolates them from all your other mundane, potentially risky activities. Most people don't do this because of the various inconveniences and expenses involved, but if you can tolerate them it's about as safe as digital activities can get.
- exec1 3y ago
  It doesn’t take much effort to remain relatively safe on the internet so you don’t have to resort to dedicated hardware just for banking. Don’t install sketchy apps that you don’t need and stop clicking on every link that you see – that’s pretty much it. I found that this basic internet hygiene has a nice side benefit as well – it forms a habit of avoiding superfluous and/or crappy content altogether.

morelisp 3y ago

"Husband depends on wife to organize his life because of bullheadedness" isn't a particularly smartphone-era phenomenon either.

vikramkr 3y ago
That's also very true lol but if it works for them it works I guess

gambiting 3y ago

That's why it's so frustrating when people point at homeless people having smartphones and snarkily say oh they aren't really poor, why would they have a smartphone if "allegedly" they can't afford food. Well the answer is that in modern life it's literally impossible to access basic infrastructure of many places without a smartphone. It's an absolute necessity unless you want to be a nomad and live in the wilderness.

imhoguy 3y ago
Yep, that is common argument against refugees. "They come on foot with smartphones, they are not poor". They keep translator app, map, documents, priceless memories as photos, contacts with relatives - it is all they own apart of backpack of cloths. I wouldn't step onto another country's soil without that.
jjgreen 3y ago
I don't have a phone, I don't live as a nomad in the wilderness. Well, in London, which is a bit of a wilderness.
- gambiting 3y ago
  I mean, cool? Fortunately in the UK a lot of services are still available offline, but it's rapidly changing.
ahartmetz 3y ago
Wasn't it 5-10 years ago that people said that? I think it's understood these days that smartphones are important to have (for better or for worse) and dirt cheap if you just need a smartphone, any smartphone.
- morelisp 3y ago
  It was 10 years ago they were upset poor people had refrigerators. https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-appliances-downplay-hardship-poverty-america https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-nation/fox-cites-ownership-...

mo_42 3y ago

> We're well into the "smartphones are a human right" era My government has to respect free speech but it doesn't mean I have to speak up. Just because something is a human right doesn't mean I have to execute it. I very much appreciate those people who live without smartphones. As a society, we need these people. It's not only about people with disabilities and other marginalized groups. It's about everyone. Last year, the smartphone of a friend of mine was stolen. Luckily, it was well protected. But still it was gone with all the 2F apps. This friend had to learn by example that those apps actually second factors. Also luckily, this person didn't enable 2F for Gmail. Otherwise it would have been much more trouble.

ghaff 3y ago
Lots of us probably come to rely too much on our smartphones. I still carry a little cash (and a few other things in a small wallet) and usually do things like print out trip itineraries but, even so, But, even so, I know if I lost/had stolen my smartphone on a trip there's still a lot more information I probably would wish I had with me.
- dazc 3y ago
  I was robbed once in Spain, lost my laptop, tablet and passport. Thankfully, I retained my smartphone which made everything a lot easier to deal with. For instance, the local consulate was super helpful in getting me issued a temporary passport but I would have had a hell of a time even finding her without my phone.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago

So no network, no power, lost your phone, not battery, broke your phone, lock out of your phone, and you are not a human anymore?

vikramkr 3y ago
I don't think you understand what a human right is. If you don't have freedom of speech, you're not suddenly not human lol. The point is that if you're human you should have access to your rights, not the other way around which wouldn't make any sense

sneak 3y ago

What about people who buy the phone but don't want to participate in the contracts of adhesion that are the ToS of Apple or Google? Apple is making it harder and harder to use an Apple ID (required for the App Store) without using iCloud. iCloud is a privacy nightmare. We shouldn't have to give up our rights to privacy to participate in society.

l33t7332273 3y ago
Can you elaborate on iCloud’s privacy situation?
- sneak 3y ago
  Most of iCloud is, by default, not end to end encrypted. The e2ee is opt in and approximately nobody uses it. Apple can and does read most of the data in iCloud (due to it lacking e2ee by default) including all your iMessages, all your iMessage attachments/photos, all your iCloud photos, all your call logs, all your iCloud files, all your contacts, calendars, etc. iMessage's e2ee is effectively backdoored by all the iMessage sync keys being backed up in the non-e2ee iCloud Backup. Apple turns over user data (including all of the aforementioned) for 17,000+ user accounts to the US government without a search warrant under the FISA (aka PRISM) system. They turn over even more user data on top of that each year when provided with actual search warrants - the 17k users figure is just the ones without search warrants! They don't protect most of the data in iCloud from themselves, and Apple is forced to spy for their national government thanks to Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act (FAA702), which allows the US to read anything in iCloud without probable cause or a search warrant - point and click access.
jpttsn 3y ago
> We shouldn't have to give up our rights to privacy to participate in society. Betrays fundamental misunderstanding of both.
- hef19898 3y ago
  It is not society that wants you to give up privacy, it is a few rech giants, and all the small wannabes, that want you to. And they are basically able to, since those tech giants control all online aspects of modern society. Society so could step in via elected governments and stop this behaviour through laws. Not that I am holding my breath on this.

harry8 3y ago

> "smartphones are a human right" This works out as "You are required to carry your surveillance device at all times" Thanks to everyone who didn't care forcing the rest of us into being part of your turnkey facist dystopia. Who do you think will be turning that key? How long? 3 years? 5? 10?

didntcheck 3y ago
And increasingly attempts to resist the surveillance are being treated as suspicious and leading to access being blocked. Using a VPN is becoming increasingly difficult, with a lot of websites outright blocking you rather than giving a CAPTCHA, and more Android apps are requiring SafetyNet verification

akira2501 3y ago

Not having a smartphone is a human right.