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I learned recently that the pluralization of "octopus" is a linguistics rabbit hole. While most people would reach for "octopuses" or "octopi", the strictly cor
by j-wags 3y ago
I learned recently that the pluralization of "octopus" is a linguistics rabbit hole. While most people would reach for "octopuses" or "octopi", the strictly correctest pluralization would be "octopodes" (last syllable rhyming with "these"), since the word is from ancient greek. [1]
I first heard this on a linguistics podcast called "Talk the Talk"[2] (now superseded by "Because Language"[3]). The hosts go on to clarify that language evolves over time and is most importantly defined by what people actually use, so there's nothing wrong with modern English deviating from the ancient greek pluralization.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralis...
[2] https://talkthetalkpodcast.com/ https://talkthetalkpodcast.com/
[3] https://becauselanguage.com/ https://becauselanguage.com/
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- arcticbull 3y agoIt is my understanding that 'octopuses' is the strictly correct option because it matches a greek root word with an English suffix and we are speaking English after all. Dictionaries seem to agree. Octopodes is acceptable in some contexts because it matches a greek root word with a greek suffix. Octopi is just wrong because it applies a latin suffix to a greek root. This came up notably a few years ago as the winning answer to a high-stakes HQ Trivia game. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/arts/hq-trivia-app-appointment-viewing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/arts/hq-trivia-app-appoin...
- remarkEon 3y agoI’m not sure I agree. If we were speaking Latin, would “Octopi” still be wrong? Given the logic used to claim that Octopuses is the correct pluralization, I don’t see how it could be. Thus, I’m left to conclude that Octopodes is the only correct form since it lacks this spoken language dependency.
- suzakus 3y agoYes, octopi is wrong in latin. Octopus is conjugated as Octopodi in the plural. See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin
- fishtockos 3y agoSee my sibling comment - where does the insistence that octopus is third declension come from? The reality is that while most Greek loanwords are third declension, many are not, and Latin authors tended to not be consistent.
- remarkEon 3y agoTotally, it would still be wrong for the reason you cited. Wasn't my point, however. I'm really just being stubborn on the plural actually being Octopodes :)
- soperj 3y agoI feel like we should settle it with something that nobody agrees on. Octopuswiches.
- satori99 3y agoOr perhaps Octopussies?
- soperj 3y agoI think people would agree with that though.
- extrememacaroni 3y agoOctii
- dredmorbius 3y agoHexapus.
- googlryas 3y agoThere is no such way to define strictly correct through logic alone in English. It's really just whatever people say. After all, we have a ton of words that mix latin and greek roots/-fixes. Eg bioluminescence, bigamy, homophobic, etc.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoMy understanding is that all variations are generally acceptable and no one cares all that much: * octopodes * octopi * octopuses
- fortran77 3y agoNo. Octopi is just wrong, has no justification, and is based on ignorance.
- commandlinefan 3y agoTell my 2nd grade teacher.
- fishtockos 3y agoNo. You seem very confident, but octopi is (grammatically) perfectly acceptable. The English word octopus is taken from the Latin (coined by Linnaeus) word octopus, which is of Greek origin. Greek loanwords in Latin were used very inconsistently, but many people on the internet seem to believe that it MUST be a third declension noun. However, Pliny treats the structurally identical polypus as second declension and uses the plural polypi (see https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+9&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0138 https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+9&f...).
- commandlinefan 3y ago> no one cares My elementary school teachers sure did. And they insisted that it was "octopi".
- dekhn 3y agoTo boldly go.
- FrankoDelMar 3y agoExcuse me if this may sounds harsh or uncharitable, but my experience with American elementary school teachers has led me to believe that many, if not most, elementary school teachers are generally rigid in their way of teaching (my way is the right way, there is no other way), and refuse to address nuance, perhaps from their own ignorance, their patronization of children, or both. While we absolutely need and should support high quality elementary school teachers, the assumption I've developed is that most elementary school teachers are highly juvenile themselves, and are there partially due to their own lack of executive functioning, considering that elementary school is more similar to a day care than an actual educational facility. I recall talking to an elementary school teacher who insisted that the only way to comprehend whether a number was even was to determine if the least significant digit was 0 or 2 and I was met with hostility when I mentioned that while that may be easier for the child to understand within a base-10 world, if even the educator can't understand why an even number is more accurately described as a number which when divided by 2 has a remainder of 0 then I should be very concerned about the state of education.
- datastoat 3y agoAs an Australian I'm used to hearing "antipodean" and sometimes "antipodes", so "octopodes" sits well!
- karaterobot 3y agoYeah, I think that battle was lost a long time ago, and in the scheme of things it wasn't not a big loss. Octopuses is more consistent with how English speakers pluralize, plus it's waaaay more fun to say.