6 ms·

This might be a hot take, but you'll have to take X from my cold, dead hands. Or at least until things start breaking, or maybe until Wayland has e.g. stellar

This might be a hot take, but you'll have to take X from my cold, dead hands. Or at least until things start breaking, or maybe until Wayland has e.g. stellar HDR support and I'll get a nice OLED monitor. Otherwise, no dice. I know that X is a crusty old spawn of Cthulhu; but honestly, I don't really care? It just works! I set up my system 10 years ago with how the UI works (including my window manager), and it stably works since then without me having to ever fiddle with it. The fact that X's development is dead is also a feature, because there's no churn! And when I see other people complaining what still doesn't work on Wayland (where everything works perfectly for me on X) I'm like, eh, I don't have the time for fiddling around; maybe I'll try it out some other day.

jgb1984 3y ago
Same here! I'll keep using X and openbox for as long as I can. It's the way I've been using Debian the past 20 years. Dwm, pekwm, fluxbox, openbox, so many cool windowmanagers... X works perfectly fine for me since ages, Wayland brings no benefits to me it only removes useful software that I enjoy.
tao_at_garden 3y ago
As a user of EXWM, I feel this deeply. That Wayland also requires just so much additional tooling to get things like screensharing working properly means that smaller distros, like Clear Linux, don't ship it.
okamiueru 3y ago
Is screen tear something that can be avoided in X11? That's mostly the only reason why I bother with Wayland
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Yes, using a compositor. I use kwin's compositing with Intel graphics, no tearing.
- Narushia 3y ago
  Yeah. I’m using Fedora 38 / GNOME 44, with two 1440p 170 Hz monitors and one 4K 120 Hz TV. For me it works out of the box, and I have not made any configurations myself to make it work.
- kouteiheika 3y ago
  Yes. I don't have any screen tearing on X11. Although I can't tell you if that's how it was out-of-box, or if I set it up to be tear free, because... I don't remember. Remember the part about things just working and me not having to do anything with this for many years? Yep, that's why. (:
ndriscoll 3y ago
Yeah the blog OP is replying to is just silly. > Unless your workflow (and hardware) comes from 20+ years ago, you have almost no reason to stick with Xorg, especially as it continues to get worse and worse when the user experience relies on newer and newer features. My workflow is probably 20+ years old because not much has changed with software in the last 20 years. My computer is getting close to 10 years old. It works fine. X doesn't get worse and worse; it continues to just work. Sort of like apple fanatics claim, except it's actually true. I'm not worried about running a keylogger or something that's going to surreptitiously capture my screen. It's not a major issue. It's not an issue at all. Never comes up. Maybe I'd care more if I were running multiple monitors each with different scaling factors and refresh rates, but that sounds pretty niche. I still don't see a reason to want Wayland as a user.
- reisse 3y ago
  > if I were running multiple monitors each with different scaling factors and refresh rates, but that sounds pretty niche So basically you're calling almost every modern laptop + external screen setup "pretty niche". I wonder whose post is more silly.
  - ndriscoll 3y ago
    I think every monitor I've seen in the last 20 years has had a 60 Hz refresh rate. Most people probably don't even know scaling options exist, so using different ones on different monitors is going to be niche, yeah. I just got a new laptop for work last month. HDR 4k display. It's still 60 Hz. More only matters for people who are really into gaming, and then you wouldn't be using a laptop.
    - reisse 3y ago
      Refresh rate - sure. But scaling?... > Most people probably don't even know scaling options exist, so using different ones on different monitors is going to be niche, yeah. If you don't know the thing exists, that doesn't mean you don't use it. Modern OSes adjust scaling automatically for the screen DPI. Otherwise using configs like Retina MacBook + 1440p displays, or 4k laptop + 4k external display would be very painful.

jgb1984 3y ago

Same here! I'll keep using X and openbox for as long as I can. It's the way I've been using Debian the past 20 years. Dwm, pekwm, fluxbox, openbox, so many cool windowmanagers... X works perfectly fine for me since ages, Wayland brings no benefits to me it only removes useful software that I enjoy.

tao_at_garden 3y ago

As a user of EXWM, I feel this deeply. That Wayland also requires just so much additional tooling to get things like screensharing working properly means that smaller distros, like Clear Linux, don't ship it.

okamiueru 3y ago

Is screen tear something that can be avoided in X11? That's mostly the only reason why I bother with Wayland

mcpackieh 3y ago
Yes, using a compositor. I use kwin's compositing with Intel graphics, no tearing.
Narushia 3y ago
Yeah. I’m using Fedora 38 / GNOME 44, with two 1440p 170 Hz monitors and one 4K 120 Hz TV. For me it works out of the box, and I have not made any configurations myself to make it work.
kouteiheika 3y ago
Yes. I don't have any screen tearing on X11. Although I can't tell you if that's how it was out-of-box, or if I set it up to be tear free, because... I don't remember. Remember the part about things just working and me not having to do anything with this for many years? Yep, that's why. (:

ndriscoll 3y ago

Yeah the blog OP is replying to is just silly. > Unless your workflow (and hardware) comes from 20+ years ago, you have almost no reason to stick with Xorg, especially as it continues to get worse and worse when the user experience relies on newer and newer features. My workflow is probably 20+ years old because not much has changed with software in the last 20 years. My computer is getting close to 10 years old. It works fine. X doesn't get worse and worse; it continues to just work. Sort of like apple fanatics claim, except it's actually true. I'm not worried about running a keylogger or something that's going to surreptitiously capture my screen. It's not a major issue. It's not an issue at all. Never comes up. Maybe I'd care more if I were running multiple monitors each with different scaling factors and refresh rates, but that sounds pretty niche. I still don't see a reason to want Wayland as a user.

reisse 3y ago
> if I were running multiple monitors each with different scaling factors and refresh rates, but that sounds pretty niche So basically you're calling almost every modern laptop + external screen setup "pretty niche". I wonder whose post is more silly.
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  I think every monitor I've seen in the last 20 years has had a 60 Hz refresh rate. Most people probably don't even know scaling options exist, so using different ones on different monitors is going to be niche, yeah. I just got a new laptop for work last month. HDR 4k display. It's still 60 Hz. More only matters for people who are really into gaming, and then you wouldn't be using a laptop.
  - reisse 3y ago
    Refresh rate - sure. But scaling?... > Most people probably don't even know scaling options exist, so using different ones on different monitors is going to be niche, yeah. If you don't know the thing exists, that doesn't mean you don't use it. Modern OSes adjust scaling automatically for the screen DPI. Otherwise using configs like Retina MacBook + 1440p displays, or 4k laptop + 4k external display would be very painful.