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The article claims/repeats the claim that this cost valve $250 million, but I don't see how. If the leaked version wasn't very playable the damage can't come fr

The article claims/repeats the claim that this cost valve $250 million, but I don't see how. If the leaked version wasn't very playable the damage can't come from lost sales

sva_ 3y ago
Pretty sure the leak also lead them to release the Source engine's code, which was wildly successful.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Valve has not released the source engine code beyond their partners.
  - russelg 3y ago
    It's literally on Github. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      This is the SDK and some parts of the engine that make the SDK easier to use and grok. It is not the engine. You cannot compile that and get a fully working engine. It's a bit like claiming the Win32 API is the Windows NT kernel.
    - mepian 3y ago
      It's literally SDK, if you care to actually read your link. Not the engine itself: the game-specific logic DLLs (client.dll and server.dll in the game's folder) that hook into the engine, and can be modified to make mods. Valve started publishing those with the release of their first game in 1998. You can read more about the modding workflow here: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/My_First_Mod https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/My_First_Mod If you are familiar with the latest version of Unreal, then it's like having access to the "Games" project in your solution and only some headers from the "Engine" project.
- mepian 3y ago
  They started licensing their code before the leak, e.g. to Troika Games. They never released the code publicly.
  - tmtvl 3y ago
    Yeah, I remember gaming mags highlighting how VtM:B was using the "Half Life 2 engine".
prmoustache 3y ago
yeah that is just "let's throw random numbers to victimize ourselves even more". I don't think a lot of people downloaded the unfinished source code, compiled it, played the game and never bought the conplete game. The worst that happened were people making memes with some 3d and graphics assets which didn't cost anyrhing to Valve. Quite the opposite it was free advertising.
- shortrounddev2 3y ago
  The justice department has absurd ways of determining how much damages were caused by unauthorized access. Kevin Mitnick talks about it in his book "Ghost in the Wires", but he was accused of causing $1.5mil in damages to DEC or Sun or something because he copied code, printed it out on paper, and kept it for himself (he didn't distribute it to anyone else). Fortunately, he was ultimately only ordered to pay a few thousand in restitution.
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    Not that I can speak for this specific story, as I have no firsthand testimony, but Mitnick is a notorious embellisher, downplayer and (anecdotally) liar.
    - StimDeck 3y ago
      *was
      - deaddodo 3y ago
        I was unaware he passed. My apologies and condolences.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - FreshStart 3y ago
    (Prize of actual secure software +1$)/NrOfPerpetraitors. Makes perfect sense just has nothing to do with justice.
grubbs 3y ago
I vaguely remember playing it. It was total garbage (the leaked copy). You could play maybe a few levels etc. Ultra buggy. I think my buddy burned it to 3 CD-Rs and it spread around my gaming friends in HS pretty quickly.
- exodust 3y ago
  Yeh I recall the leaked version quickly gained a poor reputation. I had zero interest in downloading or playing it. Not surprised that sales of the final release were unaffected.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  That's not accurate at all, the beta was revolutionary - you could play with the physics, the gravity gun. It wasn't a proper game yet for sure, but as a 2003 tech demo the beta was one of the best, you could recreate the legendary E3 demo [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q
bezier-curve 3y ago
Some of it may come from them rebuilding a lot of the game after the leak, but that was arguably an unnecessary exercise to protect their IP. Even then, not close to that figure. Federal agencies are keen to protect corporations' quarterly profits, even if it ruins people's lives. Nothing new about that.

The article claims/repeats the claim that this cost valve $250 million, but I don't see how. If the leaked version wasn't very playable the damage can't come from lost sales

sva_ 3y ago

Pretty sure the leak also lead them to release the Source engine's code, which was wildly successful.

charcircuit 3y ago
Valve has not released the source engine code beyond their partners.
- russelg 3y ago
  It's literally on Github. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013
  - whoknowsidont 3y ago
    This is the SDK and some parts of the engine that make the SDK easier to use and grok. It is not the engine. You cannot compile that and get a fully working engine. It's a bit like claiming the Win32 API is the Windows NT kernel.
  - mepian 3y ago
    It's literally SDK, if you care to actually read your link. Not the engine itself: the game-specific logic DLLs (client.dll and server.dll in the game's folder) that hook into the engine, and can be modified to make mods. Valve started publishing those with the release of their first game in 1998. You can read more about the modding workflow here: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/My_First_Mod https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/My_First_Mod If you are familiar with the latest version of Unreal, then it's like having access to the "Games" project in your solution and only some headers from the "Engine" project.
mepian 3y ago
They started licensing their code before the leak, e.g. to Troika Games. They never released the code publicly.
- tmtvl 3y ago
  Yeah, I remember gaming mags highlighting how VtM:B was using the "Half Life 2 engine".

prmoustache 3y ago

yeah that is just "let's throw random numbers to victimize ourselves even more". I don't think a lot of people downloaded the unfinished source code, compiled it, played the game and never bought the conplete game. The worst that happened were people making memes with some 3d and graphics assets which didn't cost anyrhing to Valve. Quite the opposite it was free advertising.

shortrounddev2 3y ago
The justice department has absurd ways of determining how much damages were caused by unauthorized access. Kevin Mitnick talks about it in his book "Ghost in the Wires", but he was accused of causing $1.5mil in damages to DEC or Sun or something because he copied code, printed it out on paper, and kept it for himself (he didn't distribute it to anyone else). Fortunately, he was ultimately only ordered to pay a few thousand in restitution.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  Not that I can speak for this specific story, as I have no firsthand testimony, but Mitnick is a notorious embellisher, downplayer and (anecdotally) liar.
  - StimDeck 3y ago
    *was
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      I was unaware he passed. My apologies and condolences.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- FreshStart 3y ago
  (Prize of actual secure software +1$)/NrOfPerpetraitors. Makes perfect sense just has nothing to do with justice.

grubbs 3y ago

I vaguely remember playing it. It was total garbage (the leaked copy). You could play maybe a few levels etc. Ultra buggy. I think my buddy burned it to 3 CD-Rs and it spread around my gaming friends in HS pretty quickly.

exodust 3y ago
Yeh I recall the leaked version quickly gained a poor reputation. I had zero interest in downloading or playing it. Not surprised that sales of the final release were unaffected.
kristofferR 3y ago
That's not accurate at all, the beta was revolutionary - you could play with the physics, the gravity gun. It wasn't a proper game yet for sure, but as a 2003 tech demo the beta was one of the best, you could recreate the legendary E3 demo [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddJ1OKV63Q

bezier-curve 3y ago

Some of it may come from them rebuilding a lot of the game after the leak, but that was arguably an unnecessary exercise to protect their IP. Even then, not close to that figure. Federal agencies are keen to protect corporations' quarterly profits, even if it ruins people's lives. Nothing new about that.