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I built a chrome plugin called Revision History [1] that I released about 2.5 weeks ago, so I've been talking to a good number of educators about this recently.

I built a chrome plugin called Revision History [1] that I released about 2.5 weeks ago, so I've been talking to a good number of educators about this recently. I'd say the majority of teachers are terrified of AI, because it means that they have to completely change how they teach with only a few months' notice. It's not easy to change your lesson plans or assignment structures that quickly and it'll take time to see where this all lands. Some teachers are looking for ways not to adapt, which is why there's a surge of interest in AI detection (which doesn't work well), but the sharpest educators I talk to are cognizant of the fact that there is no going back. So the plan is to incorporate AI into their curriculum and try to make assignments more "AI proof". This means more in-class work (e.g., the "flipped classroom" model [2]). Others are looking for ways to encourage students to use AI on assignments, but to revise and annotate what AI generates for them (this is what I am marketing my plugin for). Either way, it's going to be very rough over the next few years as educators scramble to keep us with a monstrous change that came about practically overnight. [1] https://www.revisionhistory.com https://www.revisionhistory.com. The plugin helps teachers see the students' process for drafting papers, unlike many than other plugins that are trying to be "AI detectors". [2] https://bokcenter.harvard.edu/flipped-classrooms#:~:text=A%20flipped%20classroom%20is%20structured,that%20involve%20higher%20order%20thinking https://bokcenter.harvard.edu/flipped-classrooms#:~:text=A%2....

geek_at 3y ago
Good job! Btw your site is exposing the .git directory https://www.revisionhistory.com/.git/config https://www.revisionhistory.com/.git/config Might want to set a filter rule for that
- imachine1980_ 3y ago
  there is any extension to do that or you manually do it, i have adhd so this type of tools save y life, this happens to me a few months back i kill the vm host and make new os, maybe too overboard but i works.
  - geek_at 3y ago
    I'm using DotGit [1] which checks for .git and .env files for every site you visit. You wouldn't believe the things I randomly found (and reported) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dotgit/pampamgoihgcedonnphgehgondkhikel https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dotgit/pampamgoihg...
- dtnewman 3y ago
  OMG... feedback like this is soooo helpful! Thank you. Nothing concerning in the .git directory, but yeah, I probably shouldn't be showing that. I will update my sync process to exclude that. Thank you! Edit: should be fixed now :)
  - HellsMaddy 3y ago
    You were just being true to your name, by offering your revision history! On a more serious note, this is a great example of how to handle a vulnerability report - fix it, change your processes, and say thank you! (geek_at could probably have done better by disclosing this in private first, though)
    - geek_at 3y ago
      I figured there wouldn't be any secrets in the git and also if your site is on hacker news (or top of a comment thread on hn) you are glued to it so I thought they'd fix it fast
    - dtnewman 3y ago
      > You were just being true to your name, by offering your revision history! lol > geek_at could probably have done better by disclosing this in private first, though I'm glad geek_at let me know quickly and also made this a learning experience for others. No harm done.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
I have to say, I think I would have hated this growing up. I have a tendency to become emotionally-invested in the quality of my writing, and I don't like people seeing it in a state I don't consider presentable. Maybe this tool would have forced me to get over that, I don't know.
- WhiteSabbath 3y ago
  Never know until you try
  - WhiteSabbath 3y ago
    I`m sure in it. In fact, I agree that children should be taught modern technologies, and you should not think that AI will replace everyone. Remember how in the beginning there were a lot of reports about students writing essays using chatGPT? So my friends and I still use the https://edubirdie.com/write-my-essay-for-me https://edubirdie.com/write-my-essay-for-me service because they write reliable papers for which we get good grades. AI often writes nonsense, and it should be borne in mind that its database is rarely updated.
- dtnewman 3y ago
  Thank you for the feedback. My wife feels this way as well. It’s good to hear perspectives on it.
- all2 3y ago
  I had a college professor (English 101) tell the class on the first day, "You're going to learn how to mutilate and kill your babies." He was brutal in draft reviews, but he pushed me to learn the process of drafting and writing. I produced work in that class that I didn't think I was capable of.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    I feel it's a lot more intimate for the teacher/professor to see all your revisions as you're typing them. The ones you don't want to submit.
moffkalast 3y ago
The fact that homework has become so prevalent that it takes more than an hour each day (on top of already a full time job's worth of classes) is a crime against childhood anyway, good riddance.
- wudangmonk 3y ago
  I was frustated with the sheer amount of essays I was helping out my nephew with. It felt like every single week he had an essay from multiple classes, and it was always the same b.s for every single one. I just couldn't see the point of having to do so many of the same type of "research" assignment over and over again. When chatgpt beta first became available I was overjoyed, it worked wonders. It worked so well that I figured teachers would have to let go of the essay crutch they had been relying on so much.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    My high school experience was largely teachers mentally assuming that their homework was the only homework we were assigned, and not realizing that the time we’d need to spend on all of it was 6 or 7 times what they personally did. I had one teacher assign four separate (essentially busy-work) assignments over Christmas break. Ridiculous.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      Argh, way too much busywork nonsense indeed. I slightly suspect the intention behind it is to mould kids into mindless worker drones that corporations want, but on the other hand per Hanlon's razor it's more likely to just be teachers exercising their ego because they can.
- TillE 3y ago
  Amen. I did great in school, except I hated homework from a very early age onwards. Tedious crap I already understood. The occasional take-home project is probably fine, but otherwise let school be school, and leave it at that.
floydianspiral 3y ago
Just wanted to say I had this _exact_ same idea a week ago and was googling around to see if anyone had done this yet. I guess I don't have to build it now haha. Hopefully you can sell this to universities/the right people and make some headway on it!
- dtnewman 3y ago
  There are a bunch that purport to do “AI detection” and a few others that are similar to mine (and more coming, I’m sure), but I like to think that mine is the most convenient to use :)
Workaccount2 3y ago
I can't help but feel that people are completely missing the forest for the trees with AI and education. Which isn't particularly surprising when you realize most people haven't ever made the connection that the primary point of education is to make effective economic contributors in your society, rather than just being something you do because it's just what we do. We are going to use powerful AI to teach kids to do jobs that AI will almost certainly do better in 10-20 years? Like I get that there is a notion of "What else are we supposed to do?", but it still just feels so silly and futile to go along with. Like "Lets use AI to teach kids how to program!"....uhhh, the writing is on the wall
- bbor 3y ago
  The purpose of education is not labor preparation :)
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    It absolutely, unequivocally is. People can romanticize it anyway they want, but formal education is very different than religion camp, painting class, or spiritual retreat training. I feel for people who don't get this or perhaps never contemplated it, but the system is designed to breed good workers and sort them into bins. And its not a bad thing either. Sure there are non-economic self contained benefits, but those are perks, not purposes.
    - tivert 3y ago
      >> The purpose of education is not labor preparation :) > It absolutely, unequivocally is. People can romanticize it anyway they want, but formal education is very different than religion camp, painting class, or spiritual retreat training. No it isn't "absolutely, unequivocally." What specific formal education are you talking about? Especially in the past, but continuing somewhat into the present-day, formal education has mainly been about enculturation, and not "labor preparation." That can seen clearly by the former emphasis on dead classical languages and the continued (though lessened) emphasis on literature and similar subjects. There's zero value in reading Shakespeare or Lord of the Flies from a "labor preparation" standpoint. However, I do see a modern trend where many people are so degraded by economics that they have trouble perceiving or thinking about anything except through the lens of economics or some economics-adjacent subject.
nomel 3y ago
> because it means that they have to completely change how they teach with only a few months' notice Why? Doesn't it only mean they need to change how they test understanding?
- PeterisP 3y ago
  No, because most assignments aren't really to test understanding but for different pedagogical goals (you could go down a rabbit hole of educational theory about different types of assessment and how and why they are used in different circumstances). In quite a few courses a key part of the actual valuable learning work is expected to happen outside of the classroom by practicing some activity or putting in time&effort to creatively think about some topic. And for many students this work happens only if there are adequate means for controlling that it has been actually done. So if students can trivially fake having done the practice or thinking, that course design isn't working any more, and you need some completely different structure of the coursework or activities so that the students will put in that work required for the learning outcomes. Like, if someone assigns an essay about (for example) the impact of foobar on widget manufacturing, it's not because anybody cares what the students think about this topic, and (in most courses) not because they want the students to practice writing essays, and not even to evaluate whether students know about the impact on foobar on widget manufacturing - usually the goal of such an assignment is to (a) have students put in some time to read and think about these topics as a whole, and (b) to see if they have some specific misconceptions that should be corrected with feedback (which is substantially different from testing the level of understanding - if you'd want to do that, then probably a different assessment type would be chosen, formative vs summative assessment). If the student has someone or something else write that essay, both these goals fail - but these things are needed for the course, so now the course needs to be redesigned to throw away the essay (because it spends time but doesn't contribute to the goals due to it being faked) and add some new activities that will achieve these goals - for example, extensive in-class discussion or debates that will require preparation and will reveal those misconceptions. But that requires changing how that course is taught, which takes time and effort.
  - theLiminator 3y ago
vlark 3y ago
How does your extension differ from Draftback?(https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiem...) Just curious.
- dtnewman 3y ago
  Not entirely different but built more specifically for teachers, so that they get relevant information without having to watch the video every time. Also, draftback doesn't integrate with Google Classroom.
  - vlark 3y ago
    Thanks!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TechBro8615 3y ago
If you're not using the latest, best tools available to teach your students - and if you're not teaching them about those tools - then you are a bad teacher. Period. Language models should be introduced in classrooms because they're a part of society now, and they're here to stay. Kids should learn about them - how they work, where they came from, how to use them - just like they should learn how to type or send an email. It does remind me of my experience as a middle schooler in 2002, when our class took a trip to the library, and the librarian gave us a lesson on "how to use search engines properly." In retrospect, the societal worry at the time was about search engines replacing librarians, so it was perhaps notable that this librarian had the humility to teach us how to use her "replacement." Surely the same applies to teachers and ChatGPT: a good teacher will not be worried about whatever impact ChatGPT might have on them personally, but will instead take the opportunity to teach their students about the new horizons opened up by this technology. (The funny part of that seminar in the library was that the lesson emphasized the need to construct efficient, keyword-based queries, rather than asking natural language questions to the search engine directly - but twenty years later we've come full circle and now you actually can just ask your question to the language models.)

geek_at 3y ago

Good job! Btw your site is exposing the .git directory https://www.revisionhistory.com/.git/config https://www.revisionhistory.com/.git/config Might want to set a filter rule for that

imachine1980_ 3y ago
there is any extension to do that or you manually do it, i have adhd so this type of tools save y life, this happens to me a few months back i kill the vm host and make new os, maybe too overboard but i works.
- geek_at 3y ago
  I'm using DotGit [1] which checks for .git and .env files for every site you visit. You wouldn't believe the things I randomly found (and reported) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dotgit/pampamgoihgcedonnphgehgondkhikel https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dotgit/pampamgoihg...
dtnewman 3y ago
OMG... feedback like this is soooo helpful! Thank you. Nothing concerning in the .git directory, but yeah, I probably shouldn't be showing that. I will update my sync process to exclude that. Thank you! Edit: should be fixed now :)
- HellsMaddy 3y ago
  You were just being true to your name, by offering your revision history! On a more serious note, this is a great example of how to handle a vulnerability report - fix it, change your processes, and say thank you! (geek_at could probably have done better by disclosing this in private first, though)
  - geek_at 3y ago
    I figured there wouldn't be any secrets in the git and also if your site is on hacker news (or top of a comment thread on hn) you are glued to it so I thought they'd fix it fast
  - dtnewman 3y ago
    > You were just being true to your name, by offering your revision history! lol > geek_at could probably have done better by disclosing this in private first, though I'm glad geek_at let me know quickly and also made this a learning experience for others. No harm done.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

I have to say, I think I would have hated this growing up. I have a tendency to become emotionally-invested in the quality of my writing, and I don't like people seeing it in a state I don't consider presentable. Maybe this tool would have forced me to get over that, I don't know.

WhiteSabbath 3y ago
Never know until you try
- WhiteSabbath 3y ago
  I`m sure in it. In fact, I agree that children should be taught modern technologies, and you should not think that AI will replace everyone. Remember how in the beginning there were a lot of reports about students writing essays using chatGPT? So my friends and I still use the https://edubirdie.com/write-my-essay-for-me https://edubirdie.com/write-my-essay-for-me service because they write reliable papers for which we get good grades. AI often writes nonsense, and it should be borne in mind that its database is rarely updated.
dtnewman 3y ago
Thank you for the feedback. My wife feels this way as well. It’s good to hear perspectives on it.
all2 3y ago
I had a college professor (English 101) tell the class on the first day, "You're going to learn how to mutilate and kill your babies." He was brutal in draft reviews, but he pushed me to learn the process of drafting and writing. I produced work in that class that I didn't think I was capable of.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  I feel it's a lot more intimate for the teacher/professor to see all your revisions as you're typing them. The ones you don't want to submit.

moffkalast 3y ago

The fact that homework has become so prevalent that it takes more than an hour each day (on top of already a full time job's worth of classes) is a crime against childhood anyway, good riddance.

wudangmonk 3y ago
I was frustated with the sheer amount of essays I was helping out my nephew with. It felt like every single week he had an essay from multiple classes, and it was always the same b.s for every single one. I just couldn't see the point of having to do so many of the same type of "research" assignment over and over again. When chatgpt beta first became available I was overjoyed, it worked wonders. It worked so well that I figured teachers would have to let go of the essay crutch they had been relying on so much.
- Auracle 3y ago
  My high school experience was largely teachers mentally assuming that their homework was the only homework we were assigned, and not realizing that the time we’d need to spend on all of it was 6 or 7 times what they personally did. I had one teacher assign four separate (essentially busy-work) assignments over Christmas break. Ridiculous.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Argh, way too much busywork nonsense indeed. I slightly suspect the intention behind it is to mould kids into mindless worker drones that corporations want, but on the other hand per Hanlon's razor it's more likely to just be teachers exercising their ego because they can.
TillE 3y ago
Amen. I did great in school, except I hated homework from a very early age onwards. Tedious crap I already understood. The occasional take-home project is probably fine, but otherwise let school be school, and leave it at that.

floydianspiral 3y ago

Just wanted to say I had this _exact_ same idea a week ago and was googling around to see if anyone had done this yet. I guess I don't have to build it now haha. Hopefully you can sell this to universities/the right people and make some headway on it!

dtnewman 3y ago
There are a bunch that purport to do “AI detection” and a few others that are similar to mine (and more coming, I’m sure), but I like to think that mine is the most convenient to use :)

Workaccount2 3y ago

I can't help but feel that people are completely missing the forest for the trees with AI and education. Which isn't particularly surprising when you realize most people haven't ever made the connection that the primary point of education is to make effective economic contributors in your society, rather than just being something you do because it's just what we do. We are going to use powerful AI to teach kids to do jobs that AI will almost certainly do better in 10-20 years? Like I get that there is a notion of "What else are we supposed to do?", but it still just feels so silly and futile to go along with. Like "Lets use AI to teach kids how to program!"....uhhh, the writing is on the wall

bbor 3y ago
The purpose of education is not labor preparation :)
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  It absolutely, unequivocally is. People can romanticize it anyway they want, but formal education is very different than religion camp, painting class, or spiritual retreat training. I feel for people who don't get this or perhaps never contemplated it, but the system is designed to breed good workers and sort them into bins. And its not a bad thing either. Sure there are non-economic self contained benefits, but those are perks, not purposes.
  - tivert 3y ago
    >> The purpose of education is not labor preparation :) > It absolutely, unequivocally is. People can romanticize it anyway they want, but formal education is very different than religion camp, painting class, or spiritual retreat training. No it isn't "absolutely, unequivocally." What specific formal education are you talking about? Especially in the past, but continuing somewhat into the present-day, formal education has mainly been about enculturation, and not "labor preparation." That can seen clearly by the former emphasis on dead classical languages and the continued (though lessened) emphasis on literature and similar subjects. There's zero value in reading Shakespeare or Lord of the Flies from a "labor preparation" standpoint. However, I do see a modern trend where many people are so degraded by economics that they have trouble perceiving or thinking about anything except through the lens of economics or some economics-adjacent subject.

nomel 3y ago

> because it means that they have to completely change how they teach with only a few months' notice Why? Doesn't it only mean they need to change how they test understanding?

PeterisP 3y ago
No, because most assignments aren't really to test understanding but for different pedagogical goals (you could go down a rabbit hole of educational theory about different types of assessment and how and why they are used in different circumstances). In quite a few courses a key part of the actual valuable learning work is expected to happen outside of the classroom by practicing some activity or putting in time&effort to creatively think about some topic. And for many students this work happens only if there are adequate means for controlling that it has been actually done. So if students can trivially fake having done the practice or thinking, that course design isn't working any more, and you need some completely different structure of the coursework or activities so that the students will put in that work required for the learning outcomes. Like, if someone assigns an essay about (for example) the impact of foobar on widget manufacturing, it's not because anybody cares what the students think about this topic, and (in most courses) not because they want the students to practice writing essays, and not even to evaluate whether students know about the impact on foobar on widget manufacturing - usually the goal of such an assignment is to (a) have students put in some time to read and think about these topics as a whole, and (b) to see if they have some specific misconceptions that should be corrected with feedback (which is substantially different from testing the level of understanding - if you'd want to do that, then probably a different assessment type would be chosen, formative vs summative assessment). If the student has someone or something else write that essay, both these goals fail - but these things are needed for the course, so now the course needs to be redesigned to throw away the essay (because it spends time but doesn't contribute to the goals due to it being faked) and add some new activities that will achieve these goals - for example, extensive in-class discussion or debates that will require preparation and will reveal those misconceptions. But that requires changing how that course is taught, which takes time and effort.
- theLiminator 3y ago

vlark 3y ago

How does your extension differ from Draftback?(https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiemfpldioamchanognpjmocgkbg https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/draftback/nnajoiem...) Just curious.

dtnewman 3y ago
Not entirely different but built more specifically for teachers, so that they get relevant information without having to watch the video every time. Also, draftback doesn't integrate with Google Classroom.
- vlark 3y ago
  Thanks!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

TechBro8615 3y ago

If you're not using the latest, best tools available to teach your students - and if you're not teaching them about those tools - then you are a bad teacher. Period. Language models should be introduced in classrooms because they're a part of society now, and they're here to stay. Kids should learn about them - how they work, where they came from, how to use them - just like they should learn how to type or send an email. It does remind me of my experience as a middle schooler in 2002, when our class took a trip to the library, and the librarian gave us a lesson on "how to use search engines properly." In retrospect, the societal worry at the time was about search engines replacing librarians, so it was perhaps notable that this librarian had the humility to teach us how to use her "replacement." Surely the same applies to teachers and ChatGPT: a good teacher will not be worried about whatever impact ChatGPT might have on them personally, but will instead take the opportunity to teach their students about the new horizons opened up by this technology. (The funny part of that seminar in the library was that the lesson emphasized the need to construct efficient, keyword-based queries, rather than asking natural language questions to the search engine directly - but twenty years later we've come full circle and now you actually can just ask your question to the language models.)