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Their entire plan is: - Deny the existence of the problem. - Pay for others to join the denialist movement. - Pay others to say that individuals should fix t

Their entire plan is: - Deny the existence of the problem. - Pay for others to join the denialist movement. - Pay others to say that individuals should fix the problem, not the company. - If they cannot deny anymore, promise they will certainly do something in the future. - When the future arrives, say they couldn't do anything for financial reasons. - Finally, say that the harm is already done, and nothing else can be done about it (we already see this happening).

cutemonster 3y ago
And: - Convince weak minded but important influencers that there's no problem, by forming "real" friendships (no bribes), so they in turn sincerely honestly spread the manipulation themselves. (Ive seen that & read that Putin uses this against the US and EU, and it apparently works great, but that's off topic)
wonderwonder 3y ago
I think its deeper than that. Its not an oil company issue (I am not implying in anyway that they are the good guys here) What would happen to society if tomorrow all oil companies just said the risk of global warming is too great, we are all shutting down. Society would collapse. Its not so much they are doing this for profits; which of course they are, but society as a whole very much needs them to continue to do so in order to assure our continued existence in our current form.
- badRNG 3y ago
  > I think its deeper than that. Its not an oil company issue. > Its not so much they are doing this for profits Funding a massive climate change denial movement in the US for decades, consequently eating up our limited window of time to make the kinds of societal changes to avoid the worst consequences of climate change is very much an "oil company issue" that is done exclusively for profit.
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  They don't need to all shut down. They can stop interfering with regulation that allows for cleaner power generation, for example.
  - jackmott42 3y ago
    There is no regulation proposed, or method proposed, to substantively reduce how much co2 is emitted when you burn fossil fuels for power. That is why this problem is so hard. You can't put a filter in place like you can for heavy metals or particulates. There is no solution other than switching to nuclear/solar/wind/etc
    - UncleMeat 3y ago
      And those solutions can be enforced by regulation. But when you get regulation like generation shifting, corporations and the political right wing collude to say that the regulations are unconstitutional.
      - busterarm 3y ago
        This assumes that governments will trend towards more stability and the ability to enforce this regulation. The latter depends on alternative energy costs trending downward and competing for viability on a larger scale. None of these things are necessarily true. In fact from the government stability perspective we've been in an unparalleled period of peace and stability that looks incredibly shaky into the near future. Any climate commitments go completely out the window when conflict breaks out between nations.
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        > But when you get regulation like generation shifting, corporations and the political right wing collude to say that the regulations are unconstitutional. The argument wasn't that they're unconstitutional, it's that they weren't authorized by Congress. To have the law you have to actually pass the law.
        3y ago
- 14 3y ago
  Exactly. You me and everyone who drives or consumes basically anything are part of the problem. You can’t put all the blame on them. However where they are to blame is denying the science to the public for years. Had they invested in clean tech years ago we would be much better off.
MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
[flagged]
- DanielVZ 3y ago
  Nah, it’s the companies that lobby to maximize profit. Cities used to be human scale, but cars took over the streets. Now we know thousands of people die every year in car accidents but it isn’t a priority for governments because freedom to give a shitload of money to oil and car companies matters more than human life.
- esafak 3y ago
  Price in the carbon footprint of these products and see if they're still so attractive.
  - MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
    They will be because they save/extend the lives tens of millions of people.
    - esafak 3y ago
      They may save lives but their price will be based on supply and demand and the demand will be based on the price of alternatives. If pricing in the negative externalities causes their price to exceed that of alternatives demand will plummet.
      - MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
        Demand is inelastic for oil so you’ll just end up with inflation. Ordinary people just trying to heat their homes and drive to work will probably be hit the hardest.
- kyletns 3y ago
  No. The decision of any individual consumer will always be millions of times less impactful than the decisions of the leaders in these organizations. They should be held to account - not the individual buying what they need to get through life.
verisimi 3y ago
Do you realise that the Rockerfellers (famous oil scions) organised the environmental movement into what we have today, via people like Maurice Strong (himself an oil entrepreneur). There is a good argument to be made that the environmental movement is a creation of 'big oil'.
berniedurfee 3y ago
- Profit!

cutemonster 3y ago

And: - Convince weak minded but important influencers that there's no problem, by forming "real" friendships (no bribes), so they in turn sincerely honestly spread the manipulation themselves. (Ive seen that & read that Putin uses this against the US and EU, and it apparently works great, but that's off topic)

wonderwonder 3y ago

I think its deeper than that. Its not an oil company issue (I am not implying in anyway that they are the good guys here) What would happen to society if tomorrow all oil companies just said the risk of global warming is too great, we are all shutting down. Society would collapse. Its not so much they are doing this for profits; which of course they are, but society as a whole very much needs them to continue to do so in order to assure our continued existence in our current form.

badRNG 3y ago
> I think its deeper than that. Its not an oil company issue. > Its not so much they are doing this for profits Funding a massive climate change denial movement in the US for decades, consequently eating up our limited window of time to make the kinds of societal changes to avoid the worst consequences of climate change is very much an "oil company issue" that is done exclusively for profit.
UncleMeat 3y ago
They don't need to all shut down. They can stop interfering with regulation that allows for cleaner power generation, for example.
- jackmott42 3y ago
  There is no regulation proposed, or method proposed, to substantively reduce how much co2 is emitted when you burn fossil fuels for power. That is why this problem is so hard. You can't put a filter in place like you can for heavy metals or particulates. There is no solution other than switching to nuclear/solar/wind/etc
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    And those solutions can be enforced by regulation. But when you get regulation like generation shifting, corporations and the political right wing collude to say that the regulations are unconstitutional.
    - busterarm 3y ago
      This assumes that governments will trend towards more stability and the ability to enforce this regulation. The latter depends on alternative energy costs trending downward and competing for viability on a larger scale. None of these things are necessarily true. In fact from the government stability perspective we've been in an unparalleled period of peace and stability that looks incredibly shaky into the near future. Any climate commitments go completely out the window when conflict breaks out between nations.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      > But when you get regulation like generation shifting, corporations and the political right wing collude to say that the regulations are unconstitutional. The argument wasn't that they're unconstitutional, it's that they weren't authorized by Congress. To have the law you have to actually pass the law.
      - 3y ago
14 3y ago
Exactly. You me and everyone who drives or consumes basically anything are part of the problem. You can’t put all the blame on them. However where they are to blame is denying the science to the public for years. Had they invested in clean tech years ago we would be much better off.

MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago

[flagged]

DanielVZ 3y ago
Nah, it’s the companies that lobby to maximize profit. Cities used to be human scale, but cars took over the streets. Now we know thousands of people die every year in car accidents but it isn’t a priority for governments because freedom to give a shitload of money to oil and car companies matters more than human life.
esafak 3y ago
Price in the carbon footprint of these products and see if they're still so attractive.
- MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
  They will be because they save/extend the lives tens of millions of people.
  - esafak 3y ago
    They may save lives but their price will be based on supply and demand and the demand will be based on the price of alternatives. If pricing in the negative externalities causes their price to exceed that of alternatives demand will plummet.
    - MaxHoppersGhost 3y ago
      Demand is inelastic for oil so you’ll just end up with inflation. Ordinary people just trying to heat their homes and drive to work will probably be hit the hardest.
kyletns 3y ago
No. The decision of any individual consumer will always be millions of times less impactful than the decisions of the leaders in these organizations. They should be held to account - not the individual buying what they need to get through life.

verisimi 3y ago

Do you realise that the Rockerfellers (famous oil scions) organised the environmental movement into what we have today, via people like Maurice Strong (himself an oil entrepreneur). There is a good argument to be made that the environmental movement is a creation of 'big oil'.

berniedurfee 3y ago

- Profit!