5 ms·

I think your vision of free speech in the past is off, compared to my born in the 60s memory. There didn't used to be racist hate speech on the news or widely d

by rnk 3y ago

I think your vision of free speech in the past is off, compared to my born in the 60s memory. There didn't used to be racist hate speech on the news or widely disseminated widely like there is today on reddit in certain groups. If there ever was a crowd saying things to say keep black kids out of their local school yelling, the news would probably minimize it. Hate speech wasn't common. It was happening of course, but not ever-present, but today it is very easy to see it. Today's conservatives in my mind just say it out loud, and the typical news media isn't squelching it, and social media is broadcasting it to get more interaction. Today that hate speech is widely disseminated. That's why today's youths are more open to blocking it - because it's much more ubiquitous.

jlawson 3y ago
It's remarkable how you've managed to completely invert the reality. Please link where racist hate speech is "widely disseminated" on reddit. (Reddit has been strictly controlled speech according to San Francisco values for a decade). Or please show, anywhere in America, a "crowd saying things to say keep black kids out of their local school yelling".
- MSFT_Edging 3y ago
  > Reddit has been strictly controlled speech according to San Francisco values for a decade This is untrue in practice, often wrapped in dog whistles, or rephrased as "urban" or something else terrible. Reddit is still an extremely racist place and its basically a game to find new ways to be racist.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    If Reddit is racist, every place is racist. If racism is the natural condition of humanity, and you need ocean-boiling engines of censorship constantly watching and suppressing content to shape it into some bonsai fiction of humanity that pleases certain people, then we don't deserve otherwise. I'd rather arrive at that pretty bonsai of humanity through education of society at a massive scale than censorship at a massive scale.
- rnk 3y ago
  Another place to see it is on twitter. Now that we are in the post-Musk X time, there is much more there, it's not being blocked like it was in the past. The gist of my argument was social media sometimes allows a lot more racist speech, getting to my thought that this is why some young people want censoring of that, because they don't want to be confronted with it. Even advertisers have noticed - https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/tech/x-ads-pro-nazi-account-brand-safety/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/tech/x-ads-pro-nazi-account-b.... I didn't mean to imply there wasn't racist public speech in say the '60s, of course there was, but it wasn't repeated on the news much. If you went out in a crowd you'd hear it, but the news paper usually gave some nicer repetition.
  - jlawson 3y ago
    You said 'another place' but you didn't show us anything in the first two places. So - you have no links to all that racism you're describing on reddit? And no evidence of crowds yelling to keep black kids out of their schools either? Again - You're saying there's so much racism. Substantiate your claims. Please provide the links to show us that what you're describing actually exists. (It doesn't exist, because all these social networks very strictly police speech to prevent racism, as does society at large.)
cocacola1 3y ago
You’re referring to the 60s US? The Civil Rights movement? The decade where George Wallace, when inaugurated as governor of Alabama, declared “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever”? The decade Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated? The decade the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act and 24th Amendment were passed? When Southern Democrats flipped to Republican over civil rights? I fear you might be viewing the past through rose tinted glasses.
- rnk 3y ago
  I think I didn't state my case very well. I was thinking that the news was censoring that, the newspaper and/or walter cronkite didn't repeat the specific racist comments, it wasn't out to the home consumer. Of course they were yelling vile things out loud, people were saying them. But it wasn't repeated in the media. Today it's repeated in social media incessantly, nazies saying things on twitter is another example.

by rnk 3y ago

jlawson 3y ago

It's remarkable how you've managed to completely invert the reality. Please link where racist hate speech is "widely disseminated" on reddit. (Reddit has been strictly controlled speech according to San Francisco values for a decade). Or please show, anywhere in America, a "crowd saying things to say keep black kids out of their local school yelling".

MSFT_Edging 3y ago
> Reddit has been strictly controlled speech according to San Francisco values for a decade This is untrue in practice, often wrapped in dog whistles, or rephrased as "urban" or something else terrible. Reddit is still an extremely racist place and its basically a game to find new ways to be racist.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  If Reddit is racist, every place is racist. If racism is the natural condition of humanity, and you need ocean-boiling engines of censorship constantly watching and suppressing content to shape it into some bonsai fiction of humanity that pleases certain people, then we don't deserve otherwise. I'd rather arrive at that pretty bonsai of humanity through education of society at a massive scale than censorship at a massive scale.
rnk 3y ago
Another place to see it is on twitter. Now that we are in the post-Musk X time, there is much more there, it's not being blocked like it was in the past. The gist of my argument was social media sometimes allows a lot more racist speech, getting to my thought that this is why some young people want censoring of that, because they don't want to be confronted with it. Even advertisers have noticed - https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/tech/x-ads-pro-nazi-account-brand-safety/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/16/tech/x-ads-pro-nazi-account-b.... I didn't mean to imply there wasn't racist public speech in say the '60s, of course there was, but it wasn't repeated on the news much. If you went out in a crowd you'd hear it, but the news paper usually gave some nicer repetition.
- jlawson 3y ago
  You said 'another place' but you didn't show us anything in the first two places. So - you have no links to all that racism you're describing on reddit? And no evidence of crowds yelling to keep black kids out of their schools either? Again - You're saying there's so much racism. Substantiate your claims. Please provide the links to show us that what you're describing actually exists. (It doesn't exist, because all these social networks very strictly police speech to prevent racism, as does society at large.)

cocacola1 3y ago

You’re referring to the 60s US? The Civil Rights movement? The decade where George Wallace, when inaugurated as governor of Alabama, declared “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever”? The decade Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated? The decade the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act and 24th Amendment were passed? When Southern Democrats flipped to Republican over civil rights? I fear you might be viewing the past through rose tinted glasses.

rnk 3y ago
I think I didn't state my case very well. I was thinking that the news was censoring that, the newspaper and/or walter cronkite didn't repeat the specific racist comments, it wasn't out to the home consumer. Of course they were yelling vile things out loud, people were saying them. But it wasn't repeated in the media. Today it's repeated in social media incessantly, nazies saying things on twitter is another example.