3 ms·

I want to point out goto definitions do work for a number of dynamic langs. This is all preference. Ive also worked on ruby on rails projects that are 15 years

I want to point out goto definitions do work for a number of dynamic langs. This is all preference. Ive also worked on ruby on rails projects that are 15 years old with 500K LoC i admit changing stuff can be pretty sketchy if your project doesn't have great test coverage. but that all ultimately comes down to the culture of the programmers working on that code base. I think things like dynamic/ vs weak typing or functional vs imperative have a much greater impact on code quality/ease of coding than that of static vs dynamic. I personally think programming in Java, c# is painful, but a lang like Crystal or Standard ML to be very pleasant. and vice versa, i think vanilla javascript is painful for all the reasons you mentioned but langs like Ruby, Erlang, or Elixir to be very pleasant. https://edward-huang.com/programming/software-development/2021/03/02/5-programming-language-that-produce-code-least-prone-to-bugs/ https://edward-huang.com/programming/software-development/20... “Some languages have a greater association with defects than others, although the effect is small.” Languages associated with fewer bugs were TypeScript , Clojure , Haskell , Ruby , and Scala ; while C , C++ , Objective-C , JavaScript , PHP , and Python were associated with more bugs.

IshKebab 3y ago
> I want to point out goto definitions do work for a number of dynamic langs. Not reliably. It can work in a small subset of situations. For statically typed languages it always works. > “Some languages have a greater association with defects than others, although the effect is small.” Languages associated with fewer bugs were TypeScript , Clojure , Haskell , Ruby , and Scala ; while C , C++ , Objective-C , JavaScript , PHP , and Python were associated with more bugs. This is mixing up too many things. For example C++ has a relatively decent static type system, but obviously it's going to have way more defects than memory safe languages. This is a much much better study: https://earlbarr.com/publications/typestudy.pdf https://earlbarr.com/publications/typestudy.pdf
- weatherlight 3y ago
  Totally hear you on the static typing benefits, but let's zoom out a bit. As I mentioned before, I've got experience with both dynamic and static languages, and I think we're missing some nuance here. Specifically, I wanna bring functional vs. imperative and strong vs. weak typing into the mix. JavaScript's weak typing does it no favors, agreed. But that's not a universal dynamic language issue. Ruby, for example, doesn't have those type coercion headaches. Now, about Haskell and Standard ML—these guys offer a different flavor of static typing. It's not the Java-esque rigidity; it's more flexible and, dare I say, enjoyable. On the tooling front, I've seen dynamic languages with solid IDE support and go-to-definition features. It's not a static-only perk; it's about the ecosystem's maturity. That study is a neat data point, but it's not the whole picture. We should consider multiple variables like paradigms and type strengths, not just the static vs. dynamic lens. I do also want to say in the defense of Elixir (and Erlang), with the advent of the dialyzer lib, it's a gradually typed language, and soon to be (fingers crossed,) a lang with a pretty unique type system. It will be both dynamic but have the same guarantees as a statically typed lang. https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2023/06/22/type-system-updates-research-dev/ https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2023/06/22/type-system-updates-... (Small tutorial on Set theoretical types, most of this is above my understanding though) https://pnwamk.github.io/sst-tutorial/ https://pnwamk.github.io/sst-tutorial/

IshKebab 3y ago

> I want to point out goto definitions do work for a number of dynamic langs. Not reliably. It can work in a small subset of situations. For statically typed languages it always works. > “Some languages have a greater association with defects than others, although the effect is small.” Languages associated with fewer bugs were TypeScript , Clojure , Haskell , Ruby , and Scala ; while C , C++ , Objective-C , JavaScript , PHP , and Python were associated with more bugs. This is mixing up too many things. For example C++ has a relatively decent static type system, but obviously it's going to have way more defects than memory safe languages. This is a much much better study: https://earlbarr.com/publications/typestudy.pdf https://earlbarr.com/publications/typestudy.pdf

weatherlight 3y ago
Totally hear you on the static typing benefits, but let's zoom out a bit. As I mentioned before, I've got experience with both dynamic and static languages, and I think we're missing some nuance here. Specifically, I wanna bring functional vs. imperative and strong vs. weak typing into the mix. JavaScript's weak typing does it no favors, agreed. But that's not a universal dynamic language issue. Ruby, for example, doesn't have those type coercion headaches. Now, about Haskell and Standard ML—these guys offer a different flavor of static typing. It's not the Java-esque rigidity; it's more flexible and, dare I say, enjoyable. On the tooling front, I've seen dynamic languages with solid IDE support and go-to-definition features. It's not a static-only perk; it's about the ecosystem's maturity. That study is a neat data point, but it's not the whole picture. We should consider multiple variables like paradigms and type strengths, not just the static vs. dynamic lens. I do also want to say in the defense of Elixir (and Erlang), with the advent of the dialyzer lib, it's a gradually typed language, and soon to be (fingers crossed,) a lang with a pretty unique type system. It will be both dynamic but have the same guarantees as a statically typed lang. https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2023/06/22/type-system-updates-research-dev/ https://elixir-lang.org/blog/2023/06/22/type-system-updates-... (Small tutorial on Set theoretical types, most of this is above my understanding though) https://pnwamk.github.io/sst-tutorial/ https://pnwamk.github.io/sst-tutorial/