6 ms·

This is absolutely false and easy to disprove. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/roe-overturned-europe-abortion-laws/670539/ https://www.theatl

by smt88 3y ago

This is absolutely false and easy to disprove. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/roe-overturned-europe-abortion-laws/670539/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/roe-overtu...

jdkee 3y ago
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- ttfkam 3y ago
  It is not however silent on the notions of privacy and bodily autonomy. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightof...
  - jdkee 3y ago
    Privacy and bodily autonomy are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. The "penumbra of privacy" is a judicially created notion and the aforementioned rights are not explicitly enumerated. They were created out of thin air by the Warren Court.
    - ttfkam 3y ago
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      - jdkee 3y ago
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        ttfkam 3y ago
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rayiner 3y ago
That article mixes up the moral and legal principles of the abortion law, and access in practice. In terms of moral and legal principles, Roe was indeed an outlier. The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly declined to find a “right” to abortion, leaving it to member nations legislatures. Most European countries don’t recognize abortion as a “right” either. (Indeed, German law recognizes a right to life and abortion is technically only decriminalized there.) Abortion law in Europe thus reflects a range of legislative choices. In that sense, Dobbs is consistent with the law in the US. Moreover, only a small minority of countries allow elective abortions in the second trimester. Most draw the line for elective abortions at the end of the first trimester (at which point the baby has a face and looks like a baby).
- tptacek 3y ago
  What's deceptive about this comment (whether you intended that or not) is that later-term abortions are rare, expensive, and almost exclusively performed because of grave health concerns, most often because of detected fetal abnormality. The term "elective" is slippery: in ordinary medical usage, "elective" means "not time sensitive" (as we all learned during COVID, when a wide variety of surgeries nobody realized were "elective" turned out to be). In the context of abortion, the term often (but not always) means "when not required to save the life of the mother". At any rate: it is not the case that mainstream European abortion limitations prevent later-term abortions in cases of fetal abnormality (or, for that matter, to protect maternal health). But that's exactly what many of the restrictions you're defending in the US do. You once wrote a post about how neither pole of US politics trusts the other to resolve hot-button political questions; gun control can't happen because Republicans don't trust Democrats not to grab all the guns, and an abortion compromise can't happen because Democrats don't trust Republicans to force women to carry gravely abnormal fetuses to term. That was a problem for you then, and isn't now. At any rate, it is not acceptable to call in bomb threats to my local library (as happened a week or two ago) because of your culture-war concerns about abortion.
  - rayiner 3y ago
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by smt88 3y ago

jdkee 3y ago

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ttfkam 3y ago
It is not however silent on the notions of privacy and bodily autonomy. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightof...
- jdkee 3y ago
  Privacy and bodily autonomy are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution. The "penumbra of privacy" is a judicially created notion and the aforementioned rights are not explicitly enumerated. They were created out of thin air by the Warren Court.
  - ttfkam 3y ago
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    - jdkee 3y ago
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      - ttfkam 3y ago
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rayiner 3y ago

That article mixes up the moral and legal principles of the abortion law, and access in practice. In terms of moral and legal principles, Roe was indeed an outlier. The European Court of Human Rights has repeatedly declined to find a “right” to abortion, leaving it to member nations legislatures. Most European countries don’t recognize abortion as a “right” either. (Indeed, German law recognizes a right to life and abortion is technically only decriminalized there.) Abortion law in Europe thus reflects a range of legislative choices. In that sense, Dobbs is consistent with the law in the US. Moreover, only a small minority of countries allow elective abortions in the second trimester. Most draw the line for elective abortions at the end of the first trimester (at which point the baby has a face and looks like a baby).

tptacek 3y ago
What's deceptive about this comment (whether you intended that or not) is that later-term abortions are rare, expensive, and almost exclusively performed because of grave health concerns, most often because of detected fetal abnormality. The term "elective" is slippery: in ordinary medical usage, "elective" means "not time sensitive" (as we all learned during COVID, when a wide variety of surgeries nobody realized were "elective" turned out to be). In the context of abortion, the term often (but not always) means "when not required to save the life of the mother". At any rate: it is not the case that mainstream European abortion limitations prevent later-term abortions in cases of fetal abnormality (or, for that matter, to protect maternal health). But that's exactly what many of the restrictions you're defending in the US do. You once wrote a post about how neither pole of US politics trusts the other to resolve hot-button political questions; gun control can't happen because Republicans don't trust Democrats not to grab all the guns, and an abortion compromise can't happen because Democrats don't trust Republicans to force women to carry gravely abnormal fetuses to term. That was a problem for you then, and isn't now. At any rate, it is not acceptable to call in bomb threats to my local library (as happened a week or two ago) because of your culture-war concerns about abortion.
- rayiner 3y ago
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