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Is this when we discuss sentient life being just a byproduct? What's the point of it all then... Heavy shit.

dekhn 3y ago
That's right- many people (myself included) believe that the subjective experience of consciousness is merely an emergent property of big brains (an epiphenomenon). And even if that does imply the universe is "meaningless", those big brains contain enough space for us to make our own meaning. I'm a nihilist in the universal sense, but a humanist in person.
- EMM_386 3y ago
  So things like AI can't be conscious, this is some sort of biological process? What is so specific about "biological" (which is a fairly meaningless term) that can't be replicated if we do the same thing with silicon or other substrates? I think you are hand waving the whole thing and thinking consciousness = brains. Sure, our brains produce consciousness, but WHY? Structure? Density of information? Complexity? Brain waves? Nobody knows.
  - grantcas 3y ago
    [dead]
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I didn't brains were the only way to achieve consciousness, nor did I imply that. I believe it is entirely possible that we could eventually create AI that is conscious, or at least, would be able to convince it is. Whether this is achievable is different from whether it is possible, but I do think that if we continue down the current line with LLMs and other models, we'll eventually end up with a system that can articulate its consciousness to the point where the Supreme Court will have to make a decision about AI rights.
    - randomopining 3y ago
      Like you basically said, consciousness is just an awareness of self. Awareness of self comes as part of an evolutionary adaptation to survive and propagate. Consciousness does not necessarily mean you are non-deterministic in your consciousness operating. Everything may be deterministic, but too complex for us to figure out at this point.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  Such a weird “belief” to hold, although admittedly I held it until my late twenties. The one objective fact of the universe is it exists and it existing at all is freaking weird. What is the uncaused cause and why are we here to experience it? Saying it’s an accident holds zero logical weight and human logic being “made up” isnt an argument but further proof of this. The truth is your nihilist belief has been taken down by so many philosophers and thinkers across so many different cultures it seems criminal none of these arguments in favor of meaning are taught in schools. Then we wonder why everyone’s so depressed.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    So you are saying having no purpose/meaning is wrong. What if having a meaning is wrong too? What if meaning is simply always a subjective thing and thus NOT OBJECTIVE. Thus what is, is. And that's it. Anything else is just subjectivity applied.

That's right- many people (myself included) believe that the subjective experience of consciousness is merely an emergent property of big brains (an epiphenomenon). And even if that does imply the universe is "meaningless", those big brains contain enough space for us to make our own meaning. I'm a nihilist in the universal sense, but a humanist in person.

EMM_386 3y ago
So things like AI can't be conscious, this is some sort of biological process? What is so specific about "biological" (which is a fairly meaningless term) that can't be replicated if we do the same thing with silicon or other substrates? I think you are hand waving the whole thing and thinking consciousness = brains. Sure, our brains produce consciousness, but WHY? Structure? Density of information? Complexity? Brain waves? Nobody knows.
- grantcas 3y ago
  [dead]
- dekhn 3y ago
  I didn't brains were the only way to achieve consciousness, nor did I imply that. I believe it is entirely possible that we could eventually create AI that is conscious, or at least, would be able to convince it is. Whether this is achievable is different from whether it is possible, but I do think that if we continue down the current line with LLMs and other models, we'll eventually end up with a system that can articulate its consciousness to the point where the Supreme Court will have to make a decision about AI rights.
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Like you basically said, consciousness is just an awareness of self. Awareness of self comes as part of an evolutionary adaptation to survive and propagate. Consciousness does not necessarily mean you are non-deterministic in your consciousness operating. Everything may be deterministic, but too complex for us to figure out at this point.
edgyquant 3y ago
Such a weird “belief” to hold, although admittedly I held it until my late twenties. The one objective fact of the universe is it exists and it existing at all is freaking weird. What is the uncaused cause and why are we here to experience it? Saying it’s an accident holds zero logical weight and human logic being “made up” isnt an argument but further proof of this. The truth is your nihilist belief has been taken down by so many philosophers and thinkers across so many different cultures it seems criminal none of these arguments in favor of meaning are taught in schools. Then we wonder why everyone’s so depressed.
- randomopining 3y ago
  So you are saying having no purpose/meaning is wrong. What if having a meaning is wrong too? What if meaning is simply always a subjective thing and thus NOT OBJECTIVE. Thus what is, is. And that's it. Anything else is just subjectivity applied.