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>To put it even more simply: When a person uses a room in a house to engage in illegal or just terrible activity, we don’t call on the electric company to cut o

>To put it even more simply: When a person uses a room in a house to engage in illegal or just terrible activity, we don’t call on the electric company to cut off the light and heat to the entire house, or the post office to stop delivering mail. LA actually did this during covid to shut off water for homes being accused of holding parties during covid. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/us/los-angeles-shuts-off-power-parties-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/us/los-angeles-shuts-off-powe... I don't agree with it, but just showing that some people have decided the ends justify the means essentially.

koolba 3y ago
> I don't agree with it, but just showing that some people have decided the ends justify the means essentially. I’m convinced they never truly cared about the ends. It’s the more basic rule that power corrupts. Those actions were all for show and it wasn’t to protect anybody. It was purely to showcase power.
- dools 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Nathanba 3y ago
  Power does not corrupt, it's just that these people were always bad people and power gives them the tools to do some bad things.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    I read an interesting article the other day. It was about the Freedom of Information Act. We now take this for granted, but getting it passed was a huge ordeal. It dramatically strengthened the accountability of government and gave citizens one of their strongest tools available. It was, unsurprisingly, vehemently opposed by both major parties and nearly every form of the US political establishment. It would eventually go on to be passed in 1966 after an extensive campaign in support of it. Anyhow, the point. Check out this [1] snippet, which was published as part of said campaign. More important than the snippet is who it's written by. A young exceptionally popular congressman from Illinois by the name of Donald Rumsfeld, who was also critical about the senseless US involvement in Vietnam. His is a name, which if happens to be before your time, would later come to be synonymous with the Iraq War, US ABC agencies torturing people, and of course the complete fabrication of evidence to justify the invasion Iraq. And he's not especially unique. I think it all comes down to a simple problem. Imagine you happen to be pro-choice. If I paid you $10,000,000 would you become an advocate for pro-life? For the overwhelming majority of people, the answer there is going to be yes. But of course you and I are relatively irrelevant, so nobody's ever going to really try to change our values. But if you or I gained power, such hypotheticals suddenly become entirely real. For a man to be surrounded by such possibilities, yet remain true to his own values - he's going to need to be rich enough that people can't afford to bribe him, or some once in a millennium Aurelius like man of true character. [1] - https://acsc.lib.udel.edu/files/original/edbab7cd2d0e82f8e198e772f5f57729.jpg https://acsc.lib.udel.edu/files/original/edbab7cd2d0e82f8e19...
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      > For a man to be surrounded by such possibilities, yet remain true to his own values - he's going to need to be rich enough that people can't afford to bribe him, or some once in a millennium Aurelius like man of true character. Not really. The easiest way to be rich enough that you don't need to take bribes to betray your core values is to take a bunch of bribes over issues you don't really care about.
      - johnchristopher 3y ago
        That doesn't solve the bribe problem though. (Or did you forget the /s ?)
        thaumasiotes 3y ago
        It solves the problem of people in power being unable to remain true to their own values, which is what my parent comment was worrying about.
        johnchristopher 3y ago
        That's really idiotic.
asu_thomas 3y ago
[flagged]
dietr1ch 3y ago
What an awful example from the third world. What's next? The IRS forces doctors not to treat some patients in ER because they may owe taxes? Access to water and medical attention are human rights, no matter how awful the humans may be according to the acting officers.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Or if the IRS investigates the President's political opponents.
  - hughesjj 3y ago
    Kk, so if I want to do crimes I just gotta be a political opponent to whoever is in charge this year and no one can do anything to me. Got it.
    - throwaway58480 3y ago
      I think history shows it pays to be friends with the party in power. As for the IRS it is complicated by the fact that the branches of government can be split along party lines. This should be considered a feature as the branches are intended to check the power of each other.
    - dietr1ch 3y ago
      You'll get human rights regardless of your political ideas, not a free pass to commit crimes. Say, instead of be denied of water, you'll get to face justice without your life being at risk nor you being deprived of essential rights. Just imagine drinking water is like carrying guns ;)
  - gmd63 3y ago
    Forget the IRS, imagine if the President himself were to withhold American resources promised to foreign governments in exchange for dirt on his political opponents.
    - 3y ago
bedhead 3y ago
[flagged]
EarlKing 3y ago
> some people have decided the ends justify the means essentially ...and it's long past time they were told in no uncertain terms that the proletariat has had enough of this bourgeoisie nonsense. Laws exists for a reason. No one should be subject to the whims of bourgeoisie overlords. Just because some imbecile believes they have a great idea and thinks it should be forced upon others does not make it so. This is such an important point that there are entire religions built around it. I didn't think I'd live to see it, but I'm proud, delighted, and amused to see that people are finally starting to wake up to the notion that maybe the rule of law is a good idea and should apply to everybody.

koolba 3y ago

> I don't agree with it, but just showing that some people have decided the ends justify the means essentially. I’m convinced they never truly cared about the ends. It’s the more basic rule that power corrupts. Those actions were all for show and it wasn’t to protect anybody. It was purely to showcase power.

dools 3y ago
[flagged]
Nathanba 3y ago
Power does not corrupt, it's just that these people were always bad people and power gives them the tools to do some bad things.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  I read an interesting article the other day. It was about the Freedom of Information Act. We now take this for granted, but getting it passed was a huge ordeal. It dramatically strengthened the accountability of government and gave citizens one of their strongest tools available. It was, unsurprisingly, vehemently opposed by both major parties and nearly every form of the US political establishment. It would eventually go on to be passed in 1966 after an extensive campaign in support of it. Anyhow, the point. Check out this [1] snippet, which was published as part of said campaign. More important than the snippet is who it's written by. A young exceptionally popular congressman from Illinois by the name of Donald Rumsfeld, who was also critical about the senseless US involvement in Vietnam. His is a name, which if happens to be before your time, would later come to be synonymous with the Iraq War, US ABC agencies torturing people, and of course the complete fabrication of evidence to justify the invasion Iraq. And he's not especially unique. I think it all comes down to a simple problem. Imagine you happen to be pro-choice. If I paid you $10,000,000 would you become an advocate for pro-life? For the overwhelming majority of people, the answer there is going to be yes. But of course you and I are relatively irrelevant, so nobody's ever going to really try to change our values. But if you or I gained power, such hypotheticals suddenly become entirely real. For a man to be surrounded by such possibilities, yet remain true to his own values - he's going to need to be rich enough that people can't afford to bribe him, or some once in a millennium Aurelius like man of true character. [1] - https://acsc.lib.udel.edu/files/original/edbab7cd2d0e82f8e198e772f5f57729.jpg https://acsc.lib.udel.edu/files/original/edbab7cd2d0e82f8e19...
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > For a man to be surrounded by such possibilities, yet remain true to his own values - he's going to need to be rich enough that people can't afford to bribe him, or some once in a millennium Aurelius like man of true character. Not really. The easiest way to be rich enough that you don't need to take bribes to betray your core values is to take a bunch of bribes over issues you don't really care about.
    - johnchristopher 3y ago
      That doesn't solve the bribe problem though. (Or did you forget the /s ?)
      - thaumasiotes 3y ago
        It solves the problem of people in power being unable to remain true to their own values, which is what my parent comment was worrying about.
        johnchristopher 3y ago
        That's really idiotic.

asu_thomas 3y ago

[flagged]

dietr1ch 3y ago

What an awful example from the third world. What's next? The IRS forces doctors not to treat some patients in ER because they may owe taxes? Access to water and medical attention are human rights, no matter how awful the humans may be according to the acting officers.

nonethewiser 3y ago
Or if the IRS investigates the President's political opponents.
- hughesjj 3y ago
  Kk, so if I want to do crimes I just gotta be a political opponent to whoever is in charge this year and no one can do anything to me. Got it.
  - throwaway58480 3y ago
    I think history shows it pays to be friends with the party in power. As for the IRS it is complicated by the fact that the branches of government can be split along party lines. This should be considered a feature as the branches are intended to check the power of each other.
  - dietr1ch 3y ago
    You'll get human rights regardless of your political ideas, not a free pass to commit crimes. Say, instead of be denied of water, you'll get to face justice without your life being at risk nor you being deprived of essential rights. Just imagine drinking water is like carrying guns ;)
- gmd63 3y ago
  Forget the IRS, imagine if the President himself were to withhold American resources promised to foreign governments in exchange for dirt on his political opponents.
  - 3y ago

bedhead 3y ago

[flagged]

EarlKing 3y ago

> some people have decided the ends justify the means essentially ...and it's long past time they were told in no uncertain terms that the proletariat has had enough of this bourgeoisie nonsense. Laws exists for a reason. No one should be subject to the whims of bourgeoisie overlords. Just because some imbecile believes they have a great idea and thinks it should be forced upon others does not make it so. This is such an important point that there are entire religions built around it. I didn't think I'd live to see it, but I'm proud, delighted, and amused to see that people are finally starting to wake up to the notion that maybe the rule of law is a good idea and should apply to everybody.