5 ms·

Notably, Europe doesn't just accommodate bicycles in cities: it's also much more comfortable to bike on rural roads, thanks to lower speed limits, smaller cars,

Notably, Europe doesn't just accommodate bicycles in cities: it's also much more comfortable to bike on rural roads, thanks to lower speed limits, smaller cars, better drivers, and more conscious design when it comes to designating roads vs. streets vs. highways. Bicycle routes (sometimes called byways) are also a hell of a lot better, and are actually viable ways to travel between nearby cities in many cases. I just spent a month bicycling around the UK. I knew the infrastructure was better than in the USA, but it blew my mind to see how even motorways often had bicycle & pedestrian paths off to the side. And almost all bridges seem to have a sidewalk, often one big enough to comfortably fit bikes and pedestrians. That's something we don't even get in the most pedestrian friendly US cities (citation: the Queensborough bridge in NYC). And the funniest part? People in the UK complain about their infrastructure constantly, and frequently asked me why I was cycling there instead of the Netherlands, or France, or Spain, or Italy, or any other European country. Infrastructure in the USA is a nightmare and an absolute embarrassment. I fear for my life every time I walk or bike here in shared space with drivers. I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that around half of Americans have never left the continent of North America [1]. It's hard to realize just how bad our infrastructure is when you have no point of comparison and all of our infra sucks. It's so frustrating because it's so simple: I just want to ride my bike and walk around. That requires very little infrastructure. I shouldn't have to wrap up my entire identity up in bicycling and walking just because most of our country doesn't bother with those activities. [1](https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-of-americans-who-never-traveled-beyond-the-state-where-they-were-born-a-surprise/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o...).

basisword 3y ago
>> blew my mind to see how even motorways often had bicycle & pedestrian paths off to the side Unless something changed recently I don't think this is true of the UK. You can't ride anything under 125CC on a UK motorway and cycling/walking is illegal. Maybe you mean dual carriageways?
- Lio 3y ago
  I don’t think the comment is about riding on the motorway, which as you say is illegal, but to the side next to the motorway on an adjacent path.
  - vanilla_nut 3y ago
    Indeed. Sidewalks (and on large roads, cycle/ped shared paths) are incredibly common in the UK. Not everywhere, of course. But considering the fact that even in US city centres you frequently can't find a sidewalk, it's a large difference. Just a lot easier to navigate places on foot, even if it's not always pleasant to be 10 feet from a motorway on a walk.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
marcinzm 3y ago
>I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that around half of Americans have never left the continent of North America [ It may also have something to do with the UK having almost 10x the population density of the US.
- voisin 3y ago
  The simple thing to do would be to look at comparably dense areas of each country. The result will be the same conclusion as OP. Even the densest places in the US have shitty infrastructure.
- greatpatton 3y ago
  A lot of place in the US have a comparable population density. Nobody is discussing the creation of a bicycle highway across Wyoming.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
TomK32 3y ago
Lower speed limits? 100km/h on rural roads here in Austria and drivers just don't care enough to keep to those limits. Smaller cars? Thanks to the SUV it has become a nightmare with those massive cars that cause a lot of wind turbulence when they overtake you on your bike. Cycling in European cities is basically just pure luck and depends far to much on the local legislation and the major. The last local election in Spain has put a lot of conservative and right-wing majors into office, many openly campaigning with turn-backs on all the work Spain has put into creating cycling infrastructure. Here in Austria the neofascists Freedom Party interprets freedom and being able to drive and park everywhere by car, same for the convservative Bundeskanzler who is in a coalition with a toothless Green party. Being a cycling advocate is a fight for each and every cycling path and even then the local city planners can still mess up and build the worst possible solution.
- TrueGeek 3y ago
  There is effectively no speed limit in many rural areas in the US as it's unmonitored that far from cities. It's not uncommon to get passed by a pickup, with a grill literally 6 feet in the air, going either 130 km/h or slowing to a near stop right before it passes you and then going as fast as it can and "rolling coal" [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
  - TomK32 3y ago
    Reminds me of this road kill experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Fp7flAWMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Fp7flAWMA
    - TrueGeek 3y ago
      omg, that's disturbing. I would have assumed most people pull over and help a turtle finish crossing the road. I can't believe people, especially this many people, purposefully do this.
jmclnx 3y ago
>Infrastructure in the USA is a nightmare and an absolute embarrassment And in the US, that will never change. An example from 2023 (yes this year). The State where I live has a law all road construction/repairs is suppose to allow for what here in the US is called a "Bike Path". That really means a 2 feet (2/3 meter) wide shoulder on each side of the road. It is delimited by white paint that will be allowed to fade. On this "path" is painted a bicycle every so often, that will also fade and never be maintained. So, a road near where I live, a bridge was replaced. The Plans called for construction of this "path" to accommodate cycling on this road. Construction completed a week ago, no white line was even painted. The plans only mentioned it so construction would be allowed to start. Since it is complete, the excuse is "Oh we forgot". This is in a State that is pushing Cycling as an alternative to Driving to work. So in the US, do not hold your breath, we will continue with doing all we can to increase the average global temperature until no one will be able to go outside in the deep South during the Summer.
- loganwedwards 3y ago
  I live in South Carolina and was nodding in agreement reading your reply.
- l1tany11 3y ago
  “We’re gonna paint little white bicycle stencils on the shoulder and you’re gonna like it!”
taylodl 3y ago
Our roadways are a mess, our healthcare is a mess, our K-12 education is a mess, a lot of our food is unfit for consumption in Europe - what are we doing? As the United States continues to crumble from within its citizens keep thinking it's the best place in the world and refuse to acknowledge there are serious issues needing addressed. It's become quite insane.
- banannaise 3y ago
  You know how a con man whose scheme is unraveling will resort to more and more desperate measures to keep it alive for as long as possible? This is that.
autokad 3y ago
>I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that around half of Americans have never left the continent of North America Some Americans have this world European fetish and think all Europeans are so well traveled and worldly. 40% of Europeans have never been to another country let alone another continent.
- vanilla_nut 3y ago
  There are places in the UK where you can catch a ferry round-trip to Europe for less than 100 quid. There are places in almost every European country where you can catch a train to another country for less than 100 euro. Unless you're traveling to Mexico or Canada (which are just not that different from the US in terms of infrastructure), Americans face at least a $500 round-trip plane ticket and around 10 hours of travel each way. More realistically, ~$1000 for a ticket at a reasonable time between reasonable points. It's just a different order of magnitude of cost to visit places with different infra and culture.
- peterbraden 3y ago
  source pls?

basisword 3y ago

>> blew my mind to see how even motorways often had bicycle & pedestrian paths off to the side Unless something changed recently I don't think this is true of the UK. You can't ride anything under 125CC on a UK motorway and cycling/walking is illegal. Maybe you mean dual carriageways?

Lio 3y ago
I don’t think the comment is about riding on the motorway, which as you say is illegal, but to the side next to the motorway on an adjacent path.
- vanilla_nut 3y ago
  Indeed. Sidewalks (and on large roads, cycle/ped shared paths) are incredibly common in the UK. Not everywhere, of course. But considering the fact that even in US city centres you frequently can't find a sidewalk, it's a large difference. Just a lot easier to navigate places on foot, even if it's not always pleasant to be 10 feet from a motorway on a walk.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

marcinzm 3y ago

>I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that around half of Americans have never left the continent of North America [ It may also have something to do with the UK having almost 10x the population density of the US.

voisin 3y ago
The simple thing to do would be to look at comparably dense areas of each country. The result will be the same conclusion as OP. Even the densest places in the US have shitty infrastructure.
greatpatton 3y ago
A lot of place in the US have a comparable population density. Nobody is discussing the creation of a bicycle highway across Wyoming.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

TomK32 3y ago

Lower speed limits? 100km/h on rural roads here in Austria and drivers just don't care enough to keep to those limits. Smaller cars? Thanks to the SUV it has become a nightmare with those massive cars that cause a lot of wind turbulence when they overtake you on your bike. Cycling in European cities is basically just pure luck and depends far to much on the local legislation and the major. The last local election in Spain has put a lot of conservative and right-wing majors into office, many openly campaigning with turn-backs on all the work Spain has put into creating cycling infrastructure. Here in Austria the neofascists Freedom Party interprets freedom and being able to drive and park everywhere by car, same for the convservative Bundeskanzler who is in a coalition with a toothless Green party. Being a cycling advocate is a fight for each and every cycling path and even then the local city planners can still mess up and build the worst possible solution.

TrueGeek 3y ago
There is effectively no speed limit in many rural areas in the US as it's unmonitored that far from cities. It's not uncommon to get passed by a pickup, with a grill literally 6 feet in the air, going either 130 km/h or slowing to a near stop right before it passes you and then going as fast as it can and "rolling coal" [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
- TomK32 3y ago
  Reminds me of this road kill experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Fp7flAWMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Fp7flAWMA
  - TrueGeek 3y ago
    omg, that's disturbing. I would have assumed most people pull over and help a turtle finish crossing the road. I can't believe people, especially this many people, purposefully do this.

jmclnx 3y ago

>Infrastructure in the USA is a nightmare and an absolute embarrassment And in the US, that will never change. An example from 2023 (yes this year). The State where I live has a law all road construction/repairs is suppose to allow for what here in the US is called a "Bike Path". That really means a 2 feet (2/3 meter) wide shoulder on each side of the road. It is delimited by white paint that will be allowed to fade. On this "path" is painted a bicycle every so often, that will also fade and never be maintained. So, a road near where I live, a bridge was replaced. The Plans called for construction of this "path" to accommodate cycling on this road. Construction completed a week ago, no white line was even painted. The plans only mentioned it so construction would be allowed to start. Since it is complete, the excuse is "Oh we forgot". This is in a State that is pushing Cycling as an alternative to Driving to work. So in the US, do not hold your breath, we will continue with doing all we can to increase the average global temperature until no one will be able to go outside in the deep South during the Summer.

loganwedwards 3y ago
I live in South Carolina and was nodding in agreement reading your reply.
l1tany11 3y ago
“We’re gonna paint little white bicycle stencils on the shoulder and you’re gonna like it!”

taylodl 3y ago

Our roadways are a mess, our healthcare is a mess, our K-12 education is a mess, a lot of our food is unfit for consumption in Europe - what are we doing? As the United States continues to crumble from within its citizens keep thinking it's the best place in the world and refuse to acknowledge there are serious issues needing addressed. It's become quite insane.

banannaise 3y ago
You know how a con man whose scheme is unraveling will resort to more and more desperate measures to keep it alive for as long as possible? This is that.

autokad 3y ago

>I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that around half of Americans have never left the continent of North America Some Americans have this world European fetish and think all Europeans are so well traveled and worldly. 40% of Europeans have never been to another country let alone another continent.

vanilla_nut 3y ago
There are places in the UK where you can catch a ferry round-trip to Europe for less than 100 quid. There are places in almost every European country where you can catch a train to another country for less than 100 euro. Unless you're traveling to Mexico or Canada (which are just not that different from the US in terms of infrastructure), Americans face at least a $500 round-trip plane ticket and around 10 hours of travel each way. More realistically, ~$1000 for a ticket at a reasonable time between reasonable points. It's just a different order of magnitude of cost to visit places with different infra and culture.
peterbraden 3y ago
source pls?