4 ms·

I’d start with a programming job and work your way towards the “best” programming job. First the best jobs rarely hire inexperienced people. Second you don’t ye

I’d start with a programming job and work your way towards the “best” programming job. First the best jobs rarely hire inexperienced people. Second you don’t yet know what best means to you. It’s a huge field and people are very varied.

tony_cannistra 3y ago
This is good advice.
shortrounddev2 3y ago
Yeah I started out at my first company and really hated my job. I quit after 2 years and got a better job, but it was pretty boring. I quit after 2 years and now I'm at another company that I really enjoy working for. Markets tend to correct salaries and responsibilities pretty quickly (you make your biggest career gains early on)
- saalweachter 3y ago
  Any employer is basically looking to have as much confidence as possible that you'll be able to do the job that they want as well as or better than any other candidate. Having a relevant degree from a prestigious or at least well-known university gives them confidence. Being able to come off as confident and knowledgeable in an interview gives them confidence. Having relevant work experience that shows you've done the job for other companies gives them confidence. Generally, the better the job is -- more pay, more interesting work, better-known firm -- the more applicants they get and the more confidence they can demand before taking a chance on hiring someone [and it's always taking a chance, no matter the candidate]. Conversely, you find a smaller place, boring work, bad pay, they can't demand a lot of confidence because they don't get a lot of applicants to be choosy about. So you can walk into those places with nothing but your coding skills and get a job, and if you can do it, you can parlay that into a better job now that they have a little more confidence given your resume.
pdutt111 3y ago
That’s a lie the best hire straight out of university too. Having worked for meta, Goldman Sachs and Bloomberg I can assure you it’s only a matter of cracking their interviews i.e. leetcode.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Places that hire out of university are likely places that have tons of turnover. They might pay great but are they the "best" jobs?
  - fsociety 3y ago
    Funny enough you learn on a percentage basis their turnover rates are greatly exaggerated, and some years are lower than a “healthy organization” of their size would like. No job is the best job, but you will learn a lot about tech and software engineering at these places. Doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone. But it is worth having an unbiased view on this.
- pb7 3y ago
  Before you can crack the interview, you have to get an interview and with no credentials, that has little chance of happening.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- pc86 3y ago
  While true, this is completely irrelevant for the OP's question.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  Having been a senior person at some of those places and other adjacent and FAANG, as well as others, I can assure you those aren’t the best places. But they have good brand.
bluefirebrand 3y ago
Yeah, I came to basically say this too. If you want a good programming job next year the best way to get it is by having any programming job this year.
Roark66 3y ago
In general this is good advice, but it is important to mention there are companies and jobs out there someone just starting out should definitely steer clear from. I specifically mean developer jobs in certain huge corporations where a developer is expected to take part in 1~3 1h long meetings every day, each with 30+ participants talking at length about things like "architecture", "policy", "planning". In addition to a daily 1h long "catch up"(previously known as stand up). Also one is expected to produce multipage written comparisons of certain technologies to justify every little choice and no actual programming work ever gets done(but if you look at the planning software there are hundreds of work items whizzing by). If you, as a junior dev or a trainee end up in a job like this, run. If you don't, your skills will atrophy. If you get used to the nice paycheck and you stay for years you'll not be able to do any "actual programming" and you'll both despise your current work and be terrified of loosing it at the same time. In my consulting career I met many people and teams in such position. If you want to get a good dev job seek one that makes you do the actual programming first. Preferably with some experienced people.
- fuzztester 3y ago
  >where a developer is expected to take part in 1~3 1h long meetings every day, each with 30+ participants talking at length about things like "architecture", "policy", "planning". Other buzzword red flags: mission, vision, teamwork, team spirit, offsite, messaging, team building, culture fit (more in startups), etc. Many, if not all, of those buzzwords are corporatespeak or startup speak for "we want people to think and act (just) like us", or, IOW, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down.

tony_cannistra 3y ago

This is good advice.

shortrounddev2 3y ago

Yeah I started out at my first company and really hated my job. I quit after 2 years and got a better job, but it was pretty boring. I quit after 2 years and now I'm at another company that I really enjoy working for. Markets tend to correct salaries and responsibilities pretty quickly (you make your biggest career gains early on)

saalweachter 3y ago
Any employer is basically looking to have as much confidence as possible that you'll be able to do the job that they want as well as or better than any other candidate. Having a relevant degree from a prestigious or at least well-known university gives them confidence. Being able to come off as confident and knowledgeable in an interview gives them confidence. Having relevant work experience that shows you've done the job for other companies gives them confidence. Generally, the better the job is -- more pay, more interesting work, better-known firm -- the more applicants they get and the more confidence they can demand before taking a chance on hiring someone [and it's always taking a chance, no matter the candidate]. Conversely, you find a smaller place, boring work, bad pay, they can't demand a lot of confidence because they don't get a lot of applicants to be choosy about. So you can walk into those places with nothing but your coding skills and get a job, and if you can do it, you can parlay that into a better job now that they have a little more confidence given your resume.

pdutt111 3y ago

That’s a lie the best hire straight out of university too. Having worked for meta, Goldman Sachs and Bloomberg I can assure you it’s only a matter of cracking their interviews i.e. leetcode.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
Places that hire out of university are likely places that have tons of turnover. They might pay great but are they the "best" jobs?
- fsociety 3y ago
  Funny enough you learn on a percentage basis their turnover rates are greatly exaggerated, and some years are lower than a “healthy organization” of their size would like. No job is the best job, but you will learn a lot about tech and software engineering at these places. Doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone. But it is worth having an unbiased view on this.
pb7 3y ago
Before you can crack the interview, you have to get an interview and with no credentials, that has little chance of happening.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pc86 3y ago
While true, this is completely irrelevant for the OP's question.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Having been a senior person at some of those places and other adjacent and FAANG, as well as others, I can assure you those aren’t the best places. But they have good brand.

bluefirebrand 3y ago

Yeah, I came to basically say this too. If you want a good programming job next year the best way to get it is by having any programming job this year.

Roark66 3y ago

In general this is good advice, but it is important to mention there are companies and jobs out there someone just starting out should definitely steer clear from. I specifically mean developer jobs in certain huge corporations where a developer is expected to take part in 1~3 1h long meetings every day, each with 30+ participants talking at length about things like "architecture", "policy", "planning". In addition to a daily 1h long "catch up"(previously known as stand up). Also one is expected to produce multipage written comparisons of certain technologies to justify every little choice and no actual programming work ever gets done(but if you look at the planning software there are hundreds of work items whizzing by). If you, as a junior dev or a trainee end up in a job like this, run. If you don't, your skills will atrophy. If you get used to the nice paycheck and you stay for years you'll not be able to do any "actual programming" and you'll both despise your current work and be terrified of loosing it at the same time. In my consulting career I met many people and teams in such position. If you want to get a good dev job seek one that makes you do the actual programming first. Preferably with some experienced people.

fuzztester 3y ago
>where a developer is expected to take part in 1~3 1h long meetings every day, each with 30+ participants talking at length about things like "architecture", "policy", "planning". Other buzzword red flags: mission, vision, teamwork, team spirit, offsite, messaging, team building, culture fit (more in startups), etc. Many, if not all, of those buzzwords are corporatespeak or startup speak for "we want people to think and act (just) like us", or, IOW, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down.