5 ms·

Something I have been pondering for a while: Is there a demand from hobbyists for custom, low-grade home-grown ICs to such a degree that somebody could make sid

by moring 3y ago

Something I have been pondering for a while: Is there a demand from hobbyists for custom, low-grade home-grown ICs to such a degree that somebody could make side money from it? Sam Zeloof is now going "all in", but we don't know how it will turn out, and it definitely seems more serious than low-grade hobbyist ICs. I know that I would be willing to pay for such a service, and doing it myself is definitely out of reach. OTOH this is really a niche even among hobbyists, and hard enough that making a 2-NAND in the $10-$100 range could be considered a huge success already. (The other special appeal to hobbyists, other than just doing it, would be a shorter turnaround time than getting your place on a multi-project wafer and waiting 1-2 years to know if you made a mistake)

b800h 3y ago
It feels like the FPGA market probably has this covered, although I appreciate that it's a bit like using a hammer to open an egg. Is there a modern equivalent to the ULA, or do low-end FPGAs handle this sort of thing?
- moring 3y ago
  I was thinking of hobbyists using homegrown ICs "because they can", not just for the final product, in the same way that people build computers purely out of 74-series ICs or discrete transistors. In fact, if the final product is all you want, using an FPGA is not worth the effort most of the times.
  - b800h 3y ago
    Oh I see, sorry yes. That said, there are certain ICs which are simply too funky for FPGAs to manage, for example the SID chip, which had a number of analogue components on the IC to enhance the sounds it produced. Having a hobbyist method for producing something like that would be cool too.
    - blincoln 3y ago
      I don't know how big the market is, but there are definitely musicians out there who would love to be able to buy clones of a wide variety of out-of-production analogue ICs to restore vintage equipment, build kits that depend on those parts, and so on. VCFs, VCOs, etc.
- ooterness 3y ago
  Yes, most digital use-cases are covered by FPGAs. But I think there's still a potential market for custom mixed-signal ASICs, and maybe also for defense and space applications where unusual environmental requirements matter more than cost.
- imtringued 3y ago
  There are FPGAs for 2€ with 640 to 1k LUTs and discrete components already exist in mass production. There is literally no market for home made NAND. https://de.farnell.com/en-DE/lattice-semiconductor/ice40ul1k-swg16itr/fpga-1mhz-wlcsp-16/dp/3864483RL https://de.farnell.com/en-DE/lattice-semiconductor/ice40ul1k... What I find more appealing is something like this: https://hackaday.com/2021/05/11/smallest-discrete-transistor-555-timer/ https://hackaday.com/2021/05/11/smallest-discrete-transistor... I know the response of the "discrete component aesthetic guy" is going to be "eww this is not using through hole parts, disgusting". I personally would find it interesting if you could somehow assemble your own ICs from a library of chiplets. The home made lithography machine would only have to build the interconnect, which has lower resolution requirements.

by moring 3y ago

b800h 3y ago

It feels like the FPGA market probably has this covered, although I appreciate that it's a bit like using a hammer to open an egg. Is there a modern equivalent to the ULA, or do low-end FPGAs handle this sort of thing?

moring 3y ago
I was thinking of hobbyists using homegrown ICs "because they can", not just for the final product, in the same way that people build computers purely out of 74-series ICs or discrete transistors. In fact, if the final product is all you want, using an FPGA is not worth the effort most of the times.
- b800h 3y ago
  Oh I see, sorry yes. That said, there are certain ICs which are simply too funky for FPGAs to manage, for example the SID chip, which had a number of analogue components on the IC to enhance the sounds it produced. Having a hobbyist method for producing something like that would be cool too.
  - blincoln 3y ago
    I don't know how big the market is, but there are definitely musicians out there who would love to be able to buy clones of a wide variety of out-of-production analogue ICs to restore vintage equipment, build kits that depend on those parts, and so on. VCFs, VCOs, etc.
ooterness 3y ago
Yes, most digital use-cases are covered by FPGAs. But I think there's still a potential market for custom mixed-signal ASICs, and maybe also for defense and space applications where unusual environmental requirements matter more than cost.
imtringued 3y ago
There are FPGAs for 2€ with 640 to 1k LUTs and discrete components already exist in mass production. There is literally no market for home made NAND. https://de.farnell.com/en-DE/lattice-semiconductor/ice40ul1k-swg16itr/fpga-1mhz-wlcsp-16/dp/3864483RL https://de.farnell.com/en-DE/lattice-semiconductor/ice40ul1k... What I find more appealing is something like this: https://hackaday.com/2021/05/11/smallest-discrete-transistor-555-timer/ https://hackaday.com/2021/05/11/smallest-discrete-transistor... I know the response of the "discrete component aesthetic guy" is going to be "eww this is not using through hole parts, disgusting". I personally would find it interesting if you could somehow assemble your own ICs from a library of chiplets. The home made lithography machine would only have to build the interconnect, which has lower resolution requirements.