10 ms·

Businesses are pressuring Target to force its employees to return to the office

38 points by healsdata 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aussieguy1234 3y ago
In other words, these businesses want forced customers, at the expense of those customers. Let's not even mention all of the extra greenhouse gas emissions and wasted time from commuting. So much for the "free" market. When they went into business, they took a risk. It shouldn't be up to ordinary workers to save them. I'd like to see a backlash here. If you are forced to go into the office anywhere near these businesses, don't give them your business.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Doesn’t sound like it would be hard to boycott the businesses who are demanding RTO so they have more footfall. If you kill their business, they won’t keep advocating for it. Would you support a business that actively causes you harm for their own benefit? Probably shouldn’t encourage bad behavior.
  - chii 3y ago
    given a large enough population, you can expect to see that most individuals don't think more than 1-2 steps ahead, and they are likely to also fall into automatic, habitual behaviour - what used to happen prior to covid will resume with high probability, if returned to office settings. This is what those business advocates and hopes for, in order to resume their original business model.
garciasn 3y ago
I live in the MSP area and now WFH. Corporate Target employees aren’t the only ones missing from downtown and Fhima’s restaurants shouldn’t require our work location to change to make his businesses survive. Hell, his latest restaurant isn’t even located downtown; it’s in the North Loop neighborhood where more people live than work. He’s ridiculous and the fact he was even quoted for this article is even more ridiculous.
- dangus 3y ago
  One of my biggest pet peeves is the business owner who feels like their business is entitled to profitably exist. Every business has to constantly adapt to a changing business environment. The ones that don’t fold.
kmbfjr 3y ago
I happily work the 90 minutes I’d spend commuting because I’m not paying for gas, maintenance and endangering my life being on the road. Never going back to an office. The world changed during lockdowns, and in this way, it changed for the better.
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  I feel like this view is very US-centric and due to bad city design. Surely shutting our doors and getting ever more isolated at home isn't the next step in society?
  - omgmajk 3y ago
    Working from home does not mean being isolated, the two aren't the same. Being isolated from the office and spending less time on travel means that you have more time to spend on friends and hobbies.
    - RamblingCTO 3y ago
      They aren't in theory. In practice they are. Look at trends across the board when it comes to close relationships. The workplace was always a connection point for many. It will be no more. You're reduced to a cog in the system giving your expected output and that's it. Congratulations, very nice! You know, if we redesigned work and society for something more meaningful, the debate about office/WFH wouldn't even be one.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        > You're reduced to a cog in the system giving your expected output and that's it. This is no more or less true whether you're working in an office or at home.
        RamblingCTO 3y ago
        Yes, you're right. But as a CTO I can tell you that it makes a difference if I see someone in the office on a regular basis and another employee that I see maybe once a year. We're human after all, built on relationships and social webbing. So I fear that WFH results in faceless work being done by "somebody" "somewhere". I do care about the social aspect of my work/colleagues quite a lot! We'll see how it plays out I guess.
archo 3y ago
https://archive.is/CzfWr https://archive.is/CzfWr
gedy 3y ago
The unrest in Minneapolis in recent past is also a factor in reduced food traffic to downtown businesses, I wouldn't just blame Target's wfh/rto policies
- garciasn 3y ago
  You are likely: 1. Trolling. 2. Don't live here. 3. (or) are clearly subsisting on a diet of misinformation. --- The areas where unrest was rampant were not known to be hotbeds of quality dining anyway and very few people here, aside from those who don't live in the metro area, are also on a diet of misinformation, or didn't go downtown often in the first place simply don't think that way. Minneapolis is the 16th largest metro area and is in the 30s for violent crime rate.
  - gedy 3y ago
    I mean the 3rd precinct was burnt down ~3 miles from Target headquarters, and rioters also broke into and attempted to burn the HQs in 2020. Is that so hard to believe would have no impact on downtown foot traffic or desire to work from office there?
    - garciasn 3y ago
      To use similar ridiculous tropes but in reverse: The Minneapolis PD officers might kneel on your neck, keep bystanders from rendering aid, and murder you. It’s possible they might even execute you, acting as judge, jury, and executioner in the blink of an eye. That said, the likelihood someone working downtown might run into a police officer on any given day is much higher than running into someone rioting because their ethnic community is routinely targeted and sometimes executed because officers feel threatened for their lives primarily by those with non-white skin. Maybe that’s the reason people are afraid to work downtown?
      - mikecoles 3y ago
        No, but nice try.
Woshiwuja 3y ago
What a fucking disgusting dystopia we live in. Don't try forcing people to go back to the office because your restaurants depends on their money. Dements
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > Don't try forcing people to go back to the office because your restaurants depends on their money. Dements With post-COVID inflation, nobody can afford to eat there anymore anyway.
  - Woshiwuja 3y ago
    What baffles me is the fact that people are poor in the US and Canada despite getting paid 100k/year. Like, wtf? Where are you spending everything?
novia 3y ago
If your food is good enough, people will drive to your restaurant and pay money for it even if they don't work there. I don't know about Minneapolis, but in Atlanta the downtown food courts that cater to all the business people are absolutely abysmal in quality. All the best food is outside the city center where the rent is cheaper and there are more immigrant populations.
- garciasn 3y ago
  There are plenty of great restaurants in the Minneapolis and St Paul proper 'cities', but specifically downtown Minneapolis is generally reserved for some very high-end restaurants, food trucks, or garbage fast casual/'skyway' restaurants (we have a system of interconnected buildings where you don't need to leave the comfort of buildings and go outside). 1. The skyways are decimated because far fewer people are downtown any longer for work. 2. The skyways had some hidden gems, to be certain, but were never a source of high-quality food. 3. About 15 years ago, food trucks hit the scene and were the first to decimate the skyway restaurants because they offered far better options. 4. Many suburbs offer some hidden gems that are open outside of the lunch hour but in my opinion, for the most part, the best restaurants are outside of the St Paul and Minneapolis downtowns and are located in areas that are the smaller neighborhoods where people live, rather than work (see: North Loop in Minneapolis and 'Eat Street' in St Paul). 5. We live 10-15 minutes out of the Minneapolis downtown area and regularly drive to Minneapolis for nice dinners out being that our suburb is particularly devoid of any high quality eating. 6. We used to live about 30 minutes South of St Paul and Minneapolis downtowns and while there were (IMO) better options within 10 minutes of our home there than where we live today, they were primarily family-owned ethnic restaurants, nothing to write home about otherwise. This is likely due to the lower cost of living and the longer distance to the other options in #4, above. --- So, to your point, yes, MSP is similar to what you describe and for the same reasons, but it's not "ALL" of the best foods. It doesn't at all change my belief that Fhima and his restaurants aren't going to succeed just because several thousand Target Corporate employees are back in the office. There are just too many other companies who have also gone WFH and none of them should change just because David is pissed off that he made a poor business decision to open restaurants where he did and his menus don't drive foot traffic above other options elsewhere.
JohnFen 3y ago
I've been seeing this horrific argument so much that I'm inclined to avoid doing business with such places whether I'm in the office or not. Screw them.
altano 3y ago
The headline doesn't match the content. Who is exerting pressure? How are they exerting it? There's isn't a single line in the article that talks about this.

38 points by healsdata 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

In other words, these businesses want forced customers, at the expense of those customers. Let's not even mention all of the extra greenhouse gas emissions and wasted time from commuting. So much for the "free" market. When they went into business, they took a risk. It shouldn't be up to ordinary workers to save them. I'd like to see a backlash here. If you are forced to go into the office anywhere near these businesses, don't give them your business.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Doesn’t sound like it would be hard to boycott the businesses who are demanding RTO so they have more footfall. If you kill their business, they won’t keep advocating for it. Would you support a business that actively causes you harm for their own benefit? Probably shouldn’t encourage bad behavior.
- chii 3y ago
  given a large enough population, you can expect to see that most individuals don't think more than 1-2 steps ahead, and they are likely to also fall into automatic, habitual behaviour - what used to happen prior to covid will resume with high probability, if returned to office settings. This is what those business advocates and hopes for, in order to resume their original business model.

garciasn 3y ago

I live in the MSP area and now WFH. Corporate Target employees aren’t the only ones missing from downtown and Fhima’s restaurants shouldn’t require our work location to change to make his businesses survive. Hell, his latest restaurant isn’t even located downtown; it’s in the North Loop neighborhood where more people live than work. He’s ridiculous and the fact he was even quoted for this article is even more ridiculous.

dangus 3y ago
One of my biggest pet peeves is the business owner who feels like their business is entitled to profitably exist. Every business has to constantly adapt to a changing business environment. The ones that don’t fold.

kmbfjr 3y ago

I happily work the 90 minutes I’d spend commuting because I’m not paying for gas, maintenance and endangering my life being on the road. Never going back to an office. The world changed during lockdowns, and in this way, it changed for the better.

RamblingCTO 3y ago
I feel like this view is very US-centric and due to bad city design. Surely shutting our doors and getting ever more isolated at home isn't the next step in society?
- omgmajk 3y ago
  Working from home does not mean being isolated, the two aren't the same. Being isolated from the office and spending less time on travel means that you have more time to spend on friends and hobbies.
  - RamblingCTO 3y ago
    They aren't in theory. In practice they are. Look at trends across the board when it comes to close relationships. The workplace was always a connection point for many. It will be no more. You're reduced to a cog in the system giving your expected output and that's it. Congratulations, very nice! You know, if we redesigned work and society for something more meaningful, the debate about office/WFH wouldn't even be one.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > You're reduced to a cog in the system giving your expected output and that's it. This is no more or less true whether you're working in an office or at home.
      - RamblingCTO 3y ago
        Yes, you're right. But as a CTO I can tell you that it makes a difference if I see someone in the office on a regular basis and another employee that I see maybe once a year. We're human after all, built on relationships and social webbing. So I fear that WFH results in faceless work being done by "somebody" "somewhere". I do care about the social aspect of my work/colleagues quite a lot! We'll see how it plays out I guess.

archo 3y ago

https://archive.is/CzfWr https://archive.is/CzfWr

gedy 3y ago

The unrest in Minneapolis in recent past is also a factor in reduced food traffic to downtown businesses, I wouldn't just blame Target's wfh/rto policies

garciasn 3y ago
You are likely: 1. Trolling. 2. Don't live here. 3. (or) are clearly subsisting on a diet of misinformation. --- The areas where unrest was rampant were not known to be hotbeds of quality dining anyway and very few people here, aside from those who don't live in the metro area, are also on a diet of misinformation, or didn't go downtown often in the first place simply don't think that way. Minneapolis is the 16th largest metro area and is in the 30s for violent crime rate.
- gedy 3y ago
  I mean the 3rd precinct was burnt down ~3 miles from Target headquarters, and rioters also broke into and attempted to burn the HQs in 2020. Is that so hard to believe would have no impact on downtown foot traffic or desire to work from office there?
  - garciasn 3y ago
    To use similar ridiculous tropes but in reverse: The Minneapolis PD officers might kneel on your neck, keep bystanders from rendering aid, and murder you. It’s possible they might even execute you, acting as judge, jury, and executioner in the blink of an eye. That said, the likelihood someone working downtown might run into a police officer on any given day is much higher than running into someone rioting because their ethnic community is routinely targeted and sometimes executed because officers feel threatened for their lives primarily by those with non-white skin. Maybe that’s the reason people are afraid to work downtown?
    - mikecoles 3y ago
      No, but nice try.

Woshiwuja 3y ago

What a fucking disgusting dystopia we live in. Don't try forcing people to go back to the office because your restaurants depends on their money. Dements

jstarfish 3y ago
> Don't try forcing people to go back to the office because your restaurants depends on their money. Dements With post-COVID inflation, nobody can afford to eat there anymore anyway.
- Woshiwuja 3y ago
  What baffles me is the fact that people are poor in the US and Canada despite getting paid 100k/year. Like, wtf? Where are you spending everything?

novia 3y ago

If your food is good enough, people will drive to your restaurant and pay money for it even if they don't work there. I don't know about Minneapolis, but in Atlanta the downtown food courts that cater to all the business people are absolutely abysmal in quality. All the best food is outside the city center where the rent is cheaper and there are more immigrant populations.

garciasn 3y ago
There are plenty of great restaurants in the Minneapolis and St Paul proper 'cities', but specifically downtown Minneapolis is generally reserved for some very high-end restaurants, food trucks, or garbage fast casual/'skyway' restaurants (we have a system of interconnected buildings where you don't need to leave the comfort of buildings and go outside). 1. The skyways are decimated because far fewer people are downtown any longer for work. 2. The skyways had some hidden gems, to be certain, but were never a source of high-quality food. 3. About 15 years ago, food trucks hit the scene and were the first to decimate the skyway restaurants because they offered far better options. 4. Many suburbs offer some hidden gems that are open outside of the lunch hour but in my opinion, for the most part, the best restaurants are outside of the St Paul and Minneapolis downtowns and are located in areas that are the smaller neighborhoods where people live, rather than work (see: North Loop in Minneapolis and 'Eat Street' in St Paul). 5. We live 10-15 minutes out of the Minneapolis downtown area and regularly drive to Minneapolis for nice dinners out being that our suburb is particularly devoid of any high quality eating. 6. We used to live about 30 minutes South of St Paul and Minneapolis downtowns and while there were (IMO) better options within 10 minutes of our home there than where we live today, they were primarily family-owned ethnic restaurants, nothing to write home about otherwise. This is likely due to the lower cost of living and the longer distance to the other options in #4, above. --- So, to your point, yes, MSP is similar to what you describe and for the same reasons, but it's not "ALL" of the best foods. It doesn't at all change my belief that Fhima and his restaurants aren't going to succeed just because several thousand Target Corporate employees are back in the office. There are just too many other companies who have also gone WFH and none of them should change just because David is pissed off that he made a poor business decision to open restaurants where he did and his menus don't drive foot traffic above other options elsewhere.

JohnFen 3y ago

I've been seeing this horrific argument so much that I'm inclined to avoid doing business with such places whether I'm in the office or not. Screw them.

altano 3y ago

The headline doesn't match the content. Who is exerting pressure? How are they exerting it? There's isn't a single line in the article that talks about this.