10 ms·
Scientists in Antarctica say they were left alone against sexual harassers
- genjii931 3y ago“scientifics”?
- OnlyMortal 3y agoClearly a new word none of us know.
- sgt 3y agoKinda like "mentalics" but for Earthly science? ref: https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/Mentalics https://asimov.fandom.com/wiki/Mentalics
- OnlyMortal 3y agoDaneel Olivaw has entered the chat
- smashed 3y ago"Scientifique" is a french noun for scientist and is pronounced just like you would pronounce scientific. Could be an easy mistake to make.
- OnlyMortal 3y agoIt’s not pronounced the same in English. “Eek” versus “ik”.
- rafram 3y agoNot in the article title (now, at least).
- alexmolas 3y agohaha sorry, I had to change the title since it was too long, and I wrote a new fast and didn't catch the error. Thanks for pointing it out :)
- renewiltord 3y agoWell, that sucks. I imagine this stuff is going to be worse on interplanetary missions and the like. Though I have some faith that the space missions will have more scrutiny. Ultimately, no one cares that much about Antarctica. Space is much more high profile.
- falcolas 3y ago> will have more scrutiny Won't matter unless there are significant consequences. Significant jail time, banned from space programs, etc. And I have strong doubts that will happen. Just look at how easily rapists get off today when they have "strong moral character" according to the judge.
- torstenvl 3y agoI'm sorry, but this comment is a perfect example of why combating this behavior is so tough. And I don't mean to pick on you—this POV is demonstrated throughout the comments here. Sexual harassment is wrong and should result in appropriate action. However, the absolute breathless hysterics—and frankly dishonesty—that result in these conversations fundamentally undermines the credibility of every single allegation that comes forward. A man commits sexual harassment by making an advance while putting a hand on a woman's shoulder. It then gets exaggerated at every level: it's assault, then it's groping, then it's sexual assault, then he's a "rapist" and this is "dangerous" and and "act of violence." When you unleash this tornado of hyperbole, you condition everyone who hears your message to assume that such allegations are always exaggerated and dishonest. And again, it's not just you personally: the OP surveys intentionally conflating "harassment or assault" are just as fundamentally insane. This messaging tells every single person who might end up on one of my juries that they shouldn't believe a word out of the victim's mouth. So yeah. I guess if you really care about holding people accountable, maybe try not intentionally sabotaging the attempts to do so.
- knodi123 3y agoWow, that's the fastest slippery slope argument I've ever seen. In the absence of a specific incident to discuss, this sounds both alarmist and alarmingly misogynist. Especially since nobody has suggested that's what happened in the very specific example that this thread is very specifically about.
- falcolas 3y agoThe fuck is wrong with people? Over the 9 month long winter, there's only about 200 men and 100 women, and over half of the latter express that SA is a problem. That implies that a lot of men are also going to be aware of the SA problem. I'm getting strong vibes to how cops will cover for each other, even if they themselves are innocent, and the union (contractor) covers for them all.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- catiopatio 3y agoThis is a leadership failure. Without proper leadership, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.
- falcolas 3y agoPurely my own opinion, but it shouldn't take a leader going "Hey, SA is bad, so don't do it, OK?" for someone to have the morals to 1) not SA someone and 2) report SA if they learn about it. Then again, I'm often accused of having too strong of a sense of justice.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoThese are systems problems. You need not only effective leadership, but also a culture where reports are investigated by a disinterested third party, strong guardrails that good faith reporters aren't retaliated against, and harsh penalties when evidence finds someone guilty. No slaps on the wrist, no dismissals of reports, no leadership chains where someone can squash an investigation either as a favor or out of reputational risk. Trust and Safety reporting should be mandatory as a condition of ongoing funding of polar ops. Accused? Confined to quarters until investigation completes. Accusations found to be true? Brig until the next transport flight is in and than permanently removed from service at the station, and banned from employment with any org that could put you in a role where you might end up at the continent again.
- beebeepka 3y ago"I study how the isolation of a small group affects willingness to engage in increasingly deviant sеxual behaviors. With robots. On drսgs."
- catiopatio 3y agoHypothesis: Isolated, mixed-sex social groups of unpaired individuals are inherently unstable. We can improve stability by decreasing isolation — via external accountability and communication, surfacing problems to external authority with the power to act. We can also improve stability by maintaining stricter single-sex spaces: separate, sex-segregated living quarters and facilities. It shouldn’t even be possible for an outlier abusive man to make his way to a woman’s door, after hours and without permission. Both cost more, but that should be factored into the cost of putting humans through unnatural experiences like this.
- 762236 3y agoThis ignores the contributions of alcohol.
- sparrish 3y agoAnd that station in Antarctica is known for its alcohol abuse. https://www.today.com/news/are-researchers-antarctica-thin-ice-abusing-alcohol-t51841 https://www.today.com/news/are-researchers-antarctica-thin-i...
- slim 3y agowhy is alcohol even available in antartica ? seems stupid and dangerous
- red-iron-pine 3y agolong term, isolated, need of morale boosters, etc.
- jgilias 3y agoWe can also increase stability by increasing the amount of paired individuals substantially. You know, make these places consist of actual communities with families, schools, and everything. Maybe that’s utopian.
- cbxyp 3y agoThere's a great book that really demonstrates the culture the NSF/Mil contractors have set up there https://www.amazon.com/Big-Dead-Place-Menacing-Antarctica/dp/1536617512 https://www.amazon.com/Big-Dead-Place-Menacing-Antarctica/dp... by an unfortunately now dead author.
- yieldcrv 3y ago> 59% of women said they’d experienced harassment or assault while on the ice, and 72% of women said such behavior was a problem in Antarctica. Seriously wondering about the other mental affects of the other 41% "good thing I'm being ignored" "wait why am I being ignored"
- corethree 3y agoI'm going to say some things here that some people find offensive. But note, no offense is intended and it's just my opinion on the way of the world. If you think differently, I respect that. Anyway... I think there's a certain reality about male behavior that just can't be ignored. If a woman locks her self up in a place with a bunch of single men this type of stuff is bound to be more likely to happen. The only reason why this doesn't happen in the real world is because of a 50/50 gender ratio. Men are satisfied with a partner and they enforce gender equality rights because they care about their partner and they care about their daughters. Remove those incentives and they will care less, it's biological reality. You remove women from a mans life and all that's left is higher level notions of morality versus base level sexual instincts. His base instincts won't be satisfied and he's just relying on what he's "taught" to dictate and control his urges. Among a high enough population those base instincts are going to override morality among a good percentage of single men. There's really no ideal solution to this. It's largely what women will experience in the military as well if they're embedded in a situation where the men have no outlet. They will unfortunately witness the darker side of men. That's not to say women don't have a dark side too, but that's a different topic. I mean what are you going to do? Send more men to the antarctic to protect those women? Who's willing to go? I bet a bunch of young single men are down for this.... Anyway I said there weren't ideal solutions to this problem but there are solutions... None offer a complete solution, none are ideal.. but they do mitigate the problem somewhat. 1. Offer free porn to the men. This largely helps men control and release their urges. 2. She needs to partner up with a man. Men will be less likely to mess with her if they know she's partnered up with another dude. Of course a man will only provide protection service if he's provided certain value as well. 3. Send Prostitutes. This causes other problems, but it does alleviate the issue of this topic. 4. Enforce even gender ratios. This would cut down the amount of people going to antartica though because many women just don't want to go.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- demarq 3y agoA reply to your points (each numbered respectively). 1. Porn is already free and available. So I’m not sure why you assume it isn’t. I’m sure the men can acquire it themselves. 2. Exchanging sex for physical protection, is still having to have sex just to be on the base. It’s just easier all round to remove men on the base that can’t control themselves, than invent an extraordinary sex protection fighting system. 3. hiring an extra team of people for the purpose of sexually satisfying the men, sounds like added and complexity and cost. Again it seems the solution is to remove men who are incapable of doing science things without groping and pinning fellow colleagues to the wall. 4. I actually support your 4th idea. more women definitely equalises the influence over the culture at the base, especially if it includes the leadership. Perhaps the first step to achieve that ratio is to remove the men that can’t control themselves. You have a great reason to kick them off the base, kind of works out really. I’d like to suggest a number 5 solution. since it’s a place of science and experimentation we should see what happens if we remove all the men who are accused of SH and SA. What would be the changes we would see?
- MichaelRo 3y ago[flagged]
- nradov 3y agoThis sort of thing is unfortunately all too common in scientific field work. In the book "Close Calls" by Stratis Kas, Dr. Sonia Rowley related a harrowing story of persistent and dangerous sexual harassment while doing marine biology research in Micronesia. She put up with it because the only other option was cancelling the expedition, and that would have set her research back by years. No one should have to make that kind of choice. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56360470-close-calls https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56360470-close-calls https://www.soniajrowley.com/index.php/people/sonia-j-rowley https://www.soniajrowley.com/index.php/people/sonia-j-rowley
- dTal 3y agoIt's worth noting that the sexual environment in McMurdo is... distorted. You have a bunch of adventurous, thrill seeking types, isolated from civilization, and extremely bored a lot of the time. They fuck. A lot more than you'd think. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-condoms-idUSN0943167020080609 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-condoms-idUSN094316702008... It's a strange culture. Beware of extrapolating any kind of larger social lessons from things that happen there.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoUS bases in the Iraqi Green Zone, and other spots like Bagram AB, had a lot of contractors and had reputations for culture like this, too. I had a signals MOS and it was a gut check coming to Baghdad and doing work around the comfy contractors after time at Camp Fallujah. The jokes about Filipina Contractors, Cinnabun, and homemade hooch are mostly overstated... but not false...