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12/13 of the circle of homeschooling families that made up our socialization group in the 90s/00s have gone no contact with their parents now. Congrats on your

12/13 of the circle of homeschooling families that made up our socialization group in the 90s/00s have gone no contact with their parents now. Congrats on your success, it’s not the norm.

lolinder 3y ago
Not the norm within your social group, which was presumably mutually selected by your respective parents. That suggests that these families are not 13 independent data points, but rather a group of 13 families that all had similar predispositions and evolved along similar lines. I'd like to see the stats overall before coming to a conclusion about what the norm is.
- deprecative 3y ago
  Big no true homeschooler energy going on in your comments.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    I don't mean it that way at all. OP took their anecdote and generalized it very broadly [0]. I shared my own anecdotes, explicitly acknowledging that it's "hard to come to any conclusions from warring anecdotes alone". OP responded saying that their anecdote is actually a collection of 13 anecdotes. I countered that 13 tightly related and completely non-random anecdotes do not turn into a usable stat. Nowhere did I mean to imply OP's experience isn't a true homeschooling experience, just that it's not necessarily as representative as they believe it is and that more information is needed before generalizing either of our experiences is fair. [0] "it hasn’t really changed that much - it’s just something parents like to tell themselves to avoid thinking about the experiences their children are missing"
- gemstones 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - CuriouslyC 3y ago
    When your child is coming home in tears every day because other children are mean, and the teachers and administrators won't do anything, and your child is sitting bored through bullshit indoctrination and being harangued for skipping brainless homework to write or make art or do any number of other things, feel free to sit down and tell them how valuable the public school system is, and how their suffering is stupid and they need to get over it.
    - andrepd 3y ago
      The school system has many problems. That doesn't mean that homeschooling isn't 10x worse.
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        In aggregate, sure. At a personal level, probably not. Just pick whatever works.
        andrepd 3y ago
        So simple! Why didn't I think of that. The reality is that what homeschooling parents think is "right" is often extremely noxious and damaging. Again, not all of them sure, but a large portion.
        Aeolun 3y ago
        > The reality is that what homeschooling parents think is "right" is often extremely noxious and damaging Yeah, which is why it’s bad in aggregate. But that generally isn’t the case for parents that send their kids to normal school first and then pull them out when things aren’t working out for whichever reason.
      - CuriouslyC 3y ago
        Just because you can point to cases of homeschooling that's 10x worse than the average public school doesn't mean there aren't homeschooling environments that aren't much better, and public school environments that aren't MUCH MUCH worse.
CuriouslyC 3y ago
People stop talking to their parents because the relationship isn't good, not because they didn't get to take a turn being shit on in public school.
- watwut 3y ago
  The "your choice to homeschool me harmed me" is point of contention and literally the conflict in some cases.
  - CuriouslyC 3y ago
    If your idea of homeschooling is to sequester a child away from all human contact to try and indoctrinate them in some crazy belief, maybe. Plenty of homeschooled kids have homeschool play groups, athletics lessons and other non-compulsory classes which they're free to leave at any time if they don't like their peer group.
    - gemstones 3y ago
      I heard this “but we have homeschool play groups! It’s different!” in the 2000s from every single one of the parents for whom homeschool was a disaster. It’s funny hearing it fresh here.
      - CuriouslyC 3y ago
        I suspect this has more to do with your social circle, which given the density of homeschoolers is probably either hyper-religious, doomsday preppers or some other dysfunctional subculture, and I'm not surprised those children would grow up to hate their parents. To be fair though, I'd imagine an hour or two a week of socialization is still quite insufficient. On the flip side, 10+ hours a day of socialization is unquestionably unnecessary, and forcing your kids to become conformists or get beat up/bullied/etc (which is the reality in public schools unless you live in a really rich neighborhood) in order to get a little more socialization time isn't a good tradeoff. There are a lot of non-school activities children can engage in to get peer socialization where the type of bullshit that occurs in public school doesn't fly, due to the adults that run those activities losing customers and having their livelihood threatened if they let kids be little cunts, unlike public schools.
ameister14 3y ago
You've got a little bit of a self-selection bias going there. Your socialization group is no more likely to be the norm than the person you replied to.

12/13 of the circle of homeschooling families that made up our socialization group in the 90s/00s have gone no contact with their parents now. Congrats on your success, it’s not the norm.

lolinder 3y ago

Not the norm within your social group, which was presumably mutually selected by your respective parents. That suggests that these families are not 13 independent data points, but rather a group of 13 families that all had similar predispositions and evolved along similar lines. I'd like to see the stats overall before coming to a conclusion about what the norm is.

deprecative 3y ago
Big no true homeschooler energy going on in your comments.
- lolinder 3y ago
  I don't mean it that way at all. OP took their anecdote and generalized it very broadly [0]. I shared my own anecdotes, explicitly acknowledging that it's "hard to come to any conclusions from warring anecdotes alone". OP responded saying that their anecdote is actually a collection of 13 anecdotes. I countered that 13 tightly related and completely non-random anecdotes do not turn into a usable stat. Nowhere did I mean to imply OP's experience isn't a true homeschooling experience, just that it's not necessarily as representative as they believe it is and that more information is needed before generalizing either of our experiences is fair. [0] "it hasn’t really changed that much - it’s just something parents like to tell themselves to avoid thinking about the experiences their children are missing"
gemstones 3y ago
[flagged]
- CuriouslyC 3y ago
  When your child is coming home in tears every day because other children are mean, and the teachers and administrators won't do anything, and your child is sitting bored through bullshit indoctrination and being harangued for skipping brainless homework to write or make art or do any number of other things, feel free to sit down and tell them how valuable the public school system is, and how their suffering is stupid and they need to get over it.
  - andrepd 3y ago
    The school system has many problems. That doesn't mean that homeschooling isn't 10x worse.
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      In aggregate, sure. At a personal level, probably not. Just pick whatever works.
      - andrepd 3y ago
        So simple! Why didn't I think of that. The reality is that what homeschooling parents think is "right" is often extremely noxious and damaging. Again, not all of them sure, but a large portion.
        Aeolun 3y ago
        > The reality is that what homeschooling parents think is "right" is often extremely noxious and damaging Yeah, which is why it’s bad in aggregate. But that generally isn’t the case for parents that send their kids to normal school first and then pull them out when things aren’t working out for whichever reason.
    - CuriouslyC 3y ago
      Just because you can point to cases of homeschooling that's 10x worse than the average public school doesn't mean there aren't homeschooling environments that aren't much better, and public school environments that aren't MUCH MUCH worse.

CuriouslyC 3y ago

People stop talking to their parents because the relationship isn't good, not because they didn't get to take a turn being shit on in public school.

watwut 3y ago
The "your choice to homeschool me harmed me" is point of contention and literally the conflict in some cases.
- CuriouslyC 3y ago
  If your idea of homeschooling is to sequester a child away from all human contact to try and indoctrinate them in some crazy belief, maybe. Plenty of homeschooled kids have homeschool play groups, athletics lessons and other non-compulsory classes which they're free to leave at any time if they don't like their peer group.
  - gemstones 3y ago
    I heard this “but we have homeschool play groups! It’s different!” in the 2000s from every single one of the parents for whom homeschool was a disaster. It’s funny hearing it fresh here.
    - CuriouslyC 3y ago
      I suspect this has more to do with your social circle, which given the density of homeschoolers is probably either hyper-religious, doomsday preppers or some other dysfunctional subculture, and I'm not surprised those children would grow up to hate their parents. To be fair though, I'd imagine an hour or two a week of socialization is still quite insufficient. On the flip side, 10+ hours a day of socialization is unquestionably unnecessary, and forcing your kids to become conformists or get beat up/bullied/etc (which is the reality in public schools unless you live in a really rich neighborhood) in order to get a little more socialization time isn't a good tradeoff. There are a lot of non-school activities children can engage in to get peer socialization where the type of bullshit that occurs in public school doesn't fly, due to the adults that run those activities losing customers and having their livelihood threatened if they let kids be little cunts, unlike public schools.

ameister14 3y ago

You've got a little bit of a self-selection bias going there. Your socialization group is no more likely to be the norm than the person you replied to.