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>> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by

>> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell their own mother. EDIT: tangentially related https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-peop...

throwaway290 3y ago
It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      > Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. I fundamentally do not agree with that. With intelligence and opportunity it may be possible for a moral person to more effectively do things which are moral, but that doesn't make that person more moral.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        Unfortunately actions and words is what matters. If you are deeply "moral" but support the gov in what you do, say by continuing to live in a violent dictatorship and work for/pay tax to the czar, you are acting immorally. Therefore between two equally moral people (self assessed) whoever actually acts moral is more moral (effective). So even if we pretend that knowledge is irrelevant to morality and only assume that smarter people are generally richer and richer people can afford to act moral then the fact is richer people are more moral IRL. And yes, this means circumstances beyond your control can make you unable to act moral even if you are moral. It's called "tragedy" and dictatorships are known for causing this
allarm 3y ago
> This is actually bullshit This is actually not because smart people are not the target group. On the other hand, I've seen smart people fall victim to the propaganda machine more than once in order to adjust and conform. They were smart, but not strong enough.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  A certain degree of sociopathy seems to be required to think independently because you must ignore the fact that everyone agrees (or seems to agree) with party policy if you live in certain regimes. It's not a very well adjusted human thing to do...
  - allarm 3y ago
    > A certain degree of sociopathy seems to be required to think independently That’s actually an interesting thought, thank you.

throwaway290 3y ago

It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more

mcpackieh 3y ago
Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    > Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. I fundamentally do not agree with that. With intelligence and opportunity it may be possible for a moral person to more effectively do things which are moral, but that doesn't make that person more moral.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      Unfortunately actions and words is what matters. If you are deeply "moral" but support the gov in what you do, say by continuing to live in a violent dictatorship and work for/pay tax to the czar, you are acting immorally. Therefore between two equally moral people (self assessed) whoever actually acts moral is more moral (effective). So even if we pretend that knowledge is irrelevant to morality and only assume that smarter people are generally richer and richer people can afford to act moral then the fact is richer people are more moral IRL. And yes, this means circumstances beyond your control can make you unable to act moral even if you are moral. It's called "tragedy" and dictatorships are known for causing this

allarm 3y ago

> This is actually bullshit This is actually not because smart people are not the target group. On the other hand, I've seen smart people fall victim to the propaganda machine more than once in order to adjust and conform. They were smart, but not strong enough.

throwaway290 3y ago
A certain degree of sociopathy seems to be required to think independently because you must ignore the fact that everyone agrees (or seems to agree) with party policy if you live in certain regimes. It's not a very well adjusted human thing to do...
- allarm 3y ago
  > A certain degree of sociopathy seems to be required to think independently That’s actually an interesting thought, thank you.