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Do you think rocket scientists are just… immune to war?

by Nullabillity 3y ago

Detrytus 3y ago
I think that rocket scientists are usually cherished by totalitarian regimes, not persecuted.
- surfpel 3y ago
  That’s a narrow view of where refugees come from. Also doesn’t consider that they can become a talented rocket scientist after becoming a refugee.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  If you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist you are more likely to be smart enough to see when your country is being ruled by thieves and going to the dogs. Either you hide it and leave ASAP, you don't hide it and try to change your country for the better (= jail, regime doesn't like people like that) or you suppress your conscience (or not have it) and enjoy a nice lifestyle. The last option is more rare because smart people are usually allergic to propaganda
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    >> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell their own mother. EDIT: tangentially related https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-peop...
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Not sure that really encompasses the way things work. For example, people doing "rocket scientist" stuff under one government, however their government gets overthrown fairly unexpectedly. Maybe Egypt or similar would be examples?
- foldr 3y ago
  Ah yes, the same way the Nazis cherished Einstein, von Neumann, … https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhattan-project/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhatt...
- nthlmkmnrg 3y ago
  [flagged]
llm_thr 3y ago
[flagged]
Shawnj2 3y ago
If anything those are often considered valuable resources to be exploited or destroyed.

Do you think rocket scientists are just… immune to war?

Detrytus 3y ago

I think that rocket scientists are usually cherished by totalitarian regimes, not persecuted.

surfpel 3y ago
That’s a narrow view of where refugees come from. Also doesn’t consider that they can become a talented rocket scientist after becoming a refugee.
throwaway290 3y ago
If you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist you are more likely to be smart enough to see when your country is being ruled by thieves and going to the dogs. Either you hide it and leave ASAP, you don't hide it and try to change your country for the better (= jail, regime doesn't like people like that) or you suppress your conscience (or not have it) and enjoy a nice lifestyle. The last option is more rare because smart people are usually allergic to propaganda
- Detrytus 3y ago
  >> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell their own mother. EDIT: tangentially related https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-peop...
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
- justinclift 3y ago
  Not sure that really encompasses the way things work. For example, people doing "rocket scientist" stuff under one government, however their government gets overthrown fairly unexpectedly. Maybe Egypt or similar would be examples?
foldr 3y ago
Ah yes, the same way the Nazis cherished Einstein, von Neumann, … https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhattan-project/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhatt...
nthlmkmnrg 3y ago
[flagged]

llm_thr 3y ago

[flagged]

Shawnj2 3y ago

If anything those are often considered valuable resources to be exploited or destroyed.