5 ms·

If anyone is interested in an anecdote from a US American mid level dev living in Germany: I get 30 paid vacation days, 10 ish public holidays and my employer

If anyone is interested in an anecdote from a US American mid level dev living in Germany: I get 30 paid vacation days, 10 ish public holidays and my employer has to pay up to 6 weeks of sick leave a year (after that the public health insurance pays). I make around 75k€ with a 38 hour work week and my take home is roughly 3600€ net. My living expenses are less than 1k (mid sized city, no car, split rent, no kids) so I am able to invest 2-2.5x my living expenses every a month.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
That's a very good wage for mid level dev. Which City?
- xetifafa 3y ago
  Don't want to give too many details but it's in NRW close to Cologne.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Aren't rents there insane?
    - xetifafa 3y ago
      Not as bad as Berlin, Munich or Hamburg. I split around 1k€ (warm) for a newly remodeled/renovated 60m2 apartment in a very hip area close to the city center.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        So the total rent is 1k or 2k?
stop50 3y ago
Consecutive sick days. If you got in the icu because of corona for 5 weeks and the month after that because you got into a car crash for 4 weeks the employer has to pay for all the 9 weeks.
- xetifafa 3y ago
  Yes, but my employer can fire me (in some cases) if I am sick for more than 30 days in a year. https://www.wirtschaftsforum.de/tipps/welche-anzahl-an-krankentagen-ist-fuer-den-arbeitgeber-zumutbar https://www.wirtschaftsforum.de/tipps/welche-anzahl-an-krank...
  - stop50 3y ago
    Not for beeing sick for 30 days in a year.
jdthedisciple 3y ago
Most likely the average dev in the US with your level of skill still makes 2-4x more than you without 2-4x the expenses. Germany may be good to live and get by but not great to actually grow, financially. The whole system is still designed so that you depend on your 800€ gov check in your senior years. Unless your parents already built some wealth it is barely possible to do so in your own lifetime in Germany.
- xetifafa 3y ago
  According to levels.fyi (if we assume its unbiased) a median dev income is around $82k in Germany vs $168k in the United States. Let's assume the mean is near that as I can't find any stats on median CoL. Also Let's compare two MCOL(?) hip cities: Portland OR and Leipzig. $82k is $4.1k take home (with healthcare) as a single in Germany. $168k is $8.8k take home as a single in Portland. Let's say monthly expenses are $1.5k as a single in Leipzig. According to numbeo I would need $2.5k for the same standard in Portland. So in Portland I can save $6.3k or 2.5x my expenses and in Leipzig I can save $2.6k or 1.6x my expenses. Healthcare is included in the net pay for Leipzig, but not Portland. Employer 401k contributions and other benefits are also not considered. Other things to consider are safety, unemployment, workers rights, tenant rights, quality of healthcare, cost of elderly care, government retirement plans, PTO, sick leave, maternity and paternity leave, cost of childcare, etc. Really comes down to what's important to you IMO.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    > Healthcare is included in the net pay for Leipzig, but not Portland. What devs are getting hired for $162k/year without a decent group plan with only a fairly token employee contribution?
    - xetifafa 3y ago
      I don't know enough about US health insurance to make a good comparison. In Germamy co-pays for doctor visits arent a thing and co-pays for meds are capped at 5-10 EUR. Also if I go to the hospital and get a surgery or something I don't have a deductible or percentage I have to pay out of pocket. My understanding of US insurance is that these are almost always a reality plus potentially a monthly premium.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

That's a very good wage for mid level dev. Which City?

xetifafa 3y ago
Don't want to give too many details but it's in NRW close to Cologne.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Aren't rents there insane?
  - xetifafa 3y ago
    Not as bad as Berlin, Munich or Hamburg. I split around 1k€ (warm) for a newly remodeled/renovated 60m2 apartment in a very hip area close to the city center.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      So the total rent is 1k or 2k?

stop50 3y ago

Consecutive sick days. If you got in the icu because of corona for 5 weeks and the month after that because you got into a car crash for 4 weeks the employer has to pay for all the 9 weeks.

xetifafa 3y ago
Yes, but my employer can fire me (in some cases) if I am sick for more than 30 days in a year. https://www.wirtschaftsforum.de/tipps/welche-anzahl-an-krankentagen-ist-fuer-den-arbeitgeber-zumutbar https://www.wirtschaftsforum.de/tipps/welche-anzahl-an-krank...
- stop50 3y ago
  Not for beeing sick for 30 days in a year.

jdthedisciple 3y ago

Most likely the average dev in the US with your level of skill still makes 2-4x more than you without 2-4x the expenses. Germany may be good to live and get by but not great to actually grow, financially. The whole system is still designed so that you depend on your 800€ gov check in your senior years. Unless your parents already built some wealth it is barely possible to do so in your own lifetime in Germany.

xetifafa 3y ago
According to levels.fyi (if we assume its unbiased) a median dev income is around $82k in Germany vs $168k in the United States. Let's assume the mean is near that as I can't find any stats on median CoL. Also Let's compare two MCOL(?) hip cities: Portland OR and Leipzig. $82k is $4.1k take home (with healthcare) as a single in Germany. $168k is $8.8k take home as a single in Portland. Let's say monthly expenses are $1.5k as a single in Leipzig. According to numbeo I would need $2.5k for the same standard in Portland. So in Portland I can save $6.3k or 2.5x my expenses and in Leipzig I can save $2.6k or 1.6x my expenses. Healthcare is included in the net pay for Leipzig, but not Portland. Employer 401k contributions and other benefits are also not considered. Other things to consider are safety, unemployment, workers rights, tenant rights, quality of healthcare, cost of elderly care, government retirement plans, PTO, sick leave, maternity and paternity leave, cost of childcare, etc. Really comes down to what's important to you IMO.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > Healthcare is included in the net pay for Leipzig, but not Portland. What devs are getting hired for $162k/year without a decent group plan with only a fairly token employee contribution?
  - xetifafa 3y ago
    I don't know enough about US health insurance to make a good comparison. In Germamy co-pays for doctor visits arent a thing and co-pays for meds are capped at 5-10 EUR. Also if I go to the hospital and get a surgery or something I don't have a deductible or percentage I have to pay out of pocket. My understanding of US insurance is that these are almost always a reality plus potentially a monthly premium.