4 ms·

Yeah, a refugee who is also a highly qualified rocket scientist should raise some healthy suspicion at the least.

by subroutine 3y ago

Nullabillity 3y ago
Do you think rocket scientists are just… immune to war?
- Detrytus 3y ago
  I think that rocket scientists are usually cherished by totalitarian regimes, not persecuted.
  - surfpel 3y ago
    That’s a narrow view of where refugees come from. Also doesn’t consider that they can become a talented rocket scientist after becoming a refugee.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    If you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist you are more likely to be smart enough to see when your country is being ruled by thieves and going to the dogs. Either you hide it and leave ASAP, you don't hide it and try to change your country for the better (= jail, regime doesn't like people like that) or you suppress your conscience (or not have it) and enjoy a nice lifestyle. The last option is more rare because smart people are usually allergic to propaganda
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      >> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell their own mother. EDIT: tangentially related https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-peop...
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more
        mcpackieh 3y ago
        Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
    - justinclift 3y ago
      Not sure that really encompasses the way things work. For example, people doing "rocket scientist" stuff under one government, however their government gets overthrown fairly unexpectedly. Maybe Egypt or similar would be examples?
  - foldr 3y ago
    Ah yes, the same way the Nazis cherished Einstein, von Neumann, … https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhattan-project/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhatt...
  - nthlmkmnrg 3y ago
    [flagged]
- llm_thr 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  If anything those are often considered valuable resources to be exploited or destroyed.
baq 3y ago
Von Braun was a Nazi spy
- culturestate 3y ago
  > Von Braun was a Nazi spy He came to the US after the war in Europe was over. Pretty difficult to spy on behalf of a political regime that no longer exists. If he was spying for anyone - which I don’t think has ever been seriously alleged, let alone proven - it would’ve been the USSR.
  - janmo 3y ago
    Until the mid 60s it was the USSR that was leading the space race
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      That was not true when von Braun and his team chose to surrender to the Americans.
      - fooker 3y ago
        Approximately half the team went to the soviets, some defected even before the end of the war.
  - stevofolife 3y ago
    All kinds of spies in all kinds of projects existed in American history. SpaceX being a relatively new organization and the roles they hire are both not immune to this. For example, “Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs (29 December 1911 – 28 January 1988) was a German theoretical physicist and atomic spy who supplied information from the American, British and Canadian Manhattan Project to the Soviet Union during and shortly after World War II.” from Wikipedia.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      GP didn’t claim spies don’t exist. They claimed spies for regimes that don’t exist don’t exist.

Yeah, a refugee who is also a highly qualified rocket scientist should raise some healthy suspicion at the least.

Nullabillity 3y ago

Do you think rocket scientists are just… immune to war?

Detrytus 3y ago
I think that rocket scientists are usually cherished by totalitarian regimes, not persecuted.
- surfpel 3y ago
  That’s a narrow view of where refugees come from. Also doesn’t consider that they can become a talented rocket scientist after becoming a refugee.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  If you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist you are more likely to be smart enough to see when your country is being ruled by thieves and going to the dogs. Either you hide it and leave ASAP, you don't hide it and try to change your country for the better (= jail, regime doesn't like people like that) or you suppress your conscience (or not have it) and enjoy a nice lifestyle. The last option is more rare because smart people are usually allergic to propaganda
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    >> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell their own mother. EDIT: tangentially related https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-people-are-more-likely-to-believe-fake-news https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/01/why-smart-peop...
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
        throwaway290 3y ago
        Where do people keep seeing those things I didn't write? Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule.., Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
        mcpackieh 3y ago
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Not sure that really encompasses the way things work. For example, people doing "rocket scientist" stuff under one government, however their government gets overthrown fairly unexpectedly. Maybe Egypt or similar would be examples?
- foldr 3y ago
  Ah yes, the same way the Nazis cherished Einstein, von Neumann, … https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhattan-project/ https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/scientist-refugees-and-manhatt...
- nthlmkmnrg 3y ago
  [flagged]
llm_thr 3y ago
[flagged]
Shawnj2 3y ago
If anything those are often considered valuable resources to be exploited or destroyed.

baq 3y ago

Von Braun was a Nazi spy

culturestate 3y ago
> Von Braun was a Nazi spy He came to the US after the war in Europe was over. Pretty difficult to spy on behalf of a political regime that no longer exists. If he was spying for anyone - which I don’t think has ever been seriously alleged, let alone proven - it would’ve been the USSR.
- janmo 3y ago
  Until the mid 60s it was the USSR that was leading the space race
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    That was not true when von Braun and his team chose to surrender to the Americans.
    - fooker 3y ago
      Approximately half the team went to the soviets, some defected even before the end of the war.
- stevofolife 3y ago
  All kinds of spies in all kinds of projects existed in American history. SpaceX being a relatively new organization and the roles they hire are both not immune to this. For example, “Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs (29 December 1911 – 28 January 1988) was a German theoretical physicist and atomic spy who supplied information from the American, British and Canadian Manhattan Project to the Soviet Union during and shortly after World War II.” from Wikipedia.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    GP didn’t claim spies don’t exist. They claimed spies for regimes that don’t exist don’t exist.