5 ms·

Ask HN: The hardest job you'll ever have.

39 points by daenz 15y ago

This YC job posting is on the front page at the time of posting this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3726135: The hardest job you'll ever have (YC S11) We're a small team of dedicated hackers working long hours on hard problems. We're using a mix of technologies (RoR, Objective-C, Core Data, Postgres, and Node), are well- funded, have passionate users, and truly believe in what we're doing. If you're one of the few that thinks this sounds interesting we'd love to talk. Send a link to your github/dvcs profile to: missionhackerhouse@gmail.com Must be in SF or willing to relocate (we'll help cover any moving expenses). I wish you could comment on the job postings themselves and I assume there is a good reason for that in general, but I want to see what other people think about this kind of posting. What is the class of developers that posting is aimed at? I like to think of myself as a decent developer, but it really rubs me the wrong way. I don't want a grueling-ly hard job. I want a challenging job. I don't want to work "long hours", I want to be flexible (in both directions). The last line is really puzzling. It's as if they know how unappealing the listing is, but they're looking for those few naive, exploitable workers who just might deal with that shit: If you're one of the few that thinks this sounds interesting we'd love to talk. Is there really an audience for this type of posting?

lewisgodowski 15y ago
I had a roommate during my first year at college. This job posting is a pretty accurate description of his work ethic. As unusual as it sounds, yes, there are people like that out there. I wouldn't say they're looking for someone naive or exploitable, but rather the few people that enjoy doing this type of work. Some people don't care too much about having free time to socialize. They get their kicks from working a lot, and don't like having "free time" or a gap in their rigid schedule.
- larrys 15y ago
  My suggestion with anything is never to limit the people that apply to you. For one thing you could scare off someone who is truly exceptional that you would hire even if they didn't want to work 24/7. The other is that this isn't GE and they don't have to worry about getting 40,000 resumes to look at. Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in sales. Having just closed 2 sales that others in my business would have blown off (because of the approach of the buyer) I can tell you that in general it always pays to leave no stone unturned and not to be lazy and limit who can approach you.
  - stray 15y ago
    > Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in sales. Just this past week I had my first experience trying to sell something on craigslist -- and I think the reason people put "serious inquiries only" in their ads there (craigslist) is because the VAST majority of responses you get are email address harvesters... Of course, the "serious inquiries only" blurb won't help with that but I'm sure that's the reason for it...
larrys 15y ago
I think this can be reduced down to simply: "We are a well funded YC11 company using Objective-C, Core Data, Postgres, and Node looking to hire in SF. We can pay relocation if needed". The rest is to much cliche.
- glimcat 15y ago
  Yes. The problem is, that's below the care threshold for wide swaths of the audience they're hoping to attract. You're hiring developers? So what, everyone's hiring developers these days. As a startup, it's also unlikely that you can win a bidding war, so avoid that dimension. Where startups can often succeed is in the "moral payoff" - are you building something I care about and want to be part of? Startups have a giant advantage there compared to a company that needs you to add a new feature to their in-house order fulfillment software. Unfortunately, you've set that axis to zero if you start going on about "hard problems" and never ever reveal who you are or what you're building. See also the previous post by the same user which is completely vague, while the current post at least gets as far as "probably some SaaS / iOS app." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3580917 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3580917 I wonder that YC doesn't include an hour session on "how to write a job post that your target audience won't classify as spam."
  - larrys 15y ago
    Good point. Don't know the answer so.. Just posted an "Ask PG" on that. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3729354 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3729354
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
stray 15y ago
Whippersnappers.
- jf271 15y ago
  Yes, they are. I raised three girls and got them all through college on my dime and by next year they will all have either MS or MBA degrees that they paid for themselves. A much tougher job than anything they could throw at me.
1123581321 15y ago
I rarely am attracted to job listings here. They are nearly always poorly written and reveal various flaws of the founders.
- caw 15y ago
  I look forward to the job postings. I always try to see how many cliches can be put into one job posting. This one didn't have too many. At minimum they need to add something about partying hard. Anyone up for "HN Job Posting" bingo? I think overall the posts on the monthly looking for work or freelancers threads are higher quality job postings than the ones we get from the YC companies.
- codeonfire 15y ago
  The adds are targeted for early 20 something's by early 20 somethings and so reflect that thinking. No one should be surprised when they read like frat ads during rush week.
  - aorshan 15y ago
    I take a bit of offense to that. I am an early 20 something and I thought that was a useless and uninformative job posting that held exactly 0 appeal to me.
    - codeonfire 15y ago
      Great, maybe advertisers will change their ads.
codeonfire 15y ago
No well experienced engineer is going to respond to these types of ads because of the horrible visions of projects passed, unrealistic inexperienced bro bosses, and an understanding that relying on hard work alone is not going to be good enough. These ads are targeted at college kids because they are mostly made by 18-20 year old YC founders.
dirkdeman 15y ago
This particular job posting not only failed to mention one single thing that would appeal to me (or any well-thinking person for that matter), but it also agitated me. Listing the stack is an attribute, not an advantage. So is the location, SF is a great city but that alone does not make me want to apply. The fact that you’re a small team working long hours on hard problems? To me, it screams ‘NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE’. So you have funding and users? Wow. How much? How many? What is it you’re doing? Furthermore, the complete and utter lack of information, coupled with a shifty Gmail address almost makes me think it’s a scam. It just puzzles me why people create job listings like this. In today’s job market for skilled engineers could you at least TRY to persuade me to apply?
- jetti 15y ago
  It may scream "NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE" but at least they are honest about it. Being upfront about it is much better than going through the interviews and being told one thing but when you start working it turns out "hey, we need you to work more hours" which is what happened to me currently.

39 points by daenz 15y ago

lewisgodowski 15y ago

I had a roommate during my first year at college. This job posting is a pretty accurate description of his work ethic. As unusual as it sounds, yes, there are people like that out there. I wouldn't say they're looking for someone naive or exploitable, but rather the few people that enjoy doing this type of work. Some people don't care too much about having free time to socialize. They get their kicks from working a lot, and don't like having "free time" or a gap in their rigid schedule.

larrys 15y ago
My suggestion with anything is never to limit the people that apply to you. For one thing you could scare off someone who is truly exceptional that you would hire even if they didn't want to work 24/7. The other is that this isn't GE and they don't have to worry about getting 40,000 resumes to look at. Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in sales. Having just closed 2 sales that others in my business would have blown off (because of the approach of the buyer) I can tell you that in general it always pays to leave no stone unturned and not to be lazy and limit who can approach you.
- stray 15y ago
  > Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in sales. Just this past week I had my first experience trying to sell something on craigslist -- and I think the reason people put "serious inquiries only" in their ads there (craigslist) is because the VAST majority of responses you get are email address harvesters... Of course, the "serious inquiries only" blurb won't help with that but I'm sure that's the reason for it...

larrys 15y ago

I think this can be reduced down to simply: "We are a well funded YC11 company using Objective-C, Core Data, Postgres, and Node looking to hire in SF. We can pay relocation if needed". The rest is to much cliche.

glimcat 15y ago
Yes. The problem is, that's below the care threshold for wide swaths of the audience they're hoping to attract. You're hiring developers? So what, everyone's hiring developers these days. As a startup, it's also unlikely that you can win a bidding war, so avoid that dimension. Where startups can often succeed is in the "moral payoff" - are you building something I care about and want to be part of? Startups have a giant advantage there compared to a company that needs you to add a new feature to their in-house order fulfillment software. Unfortunately, you've set that axis to zero if you start going on about "hard problems" and never ever reveal who you are or what you're building. See also the previous post by the same user which is completely vague, while the current post at least gets as far as "probably some SaaS / iOS app." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3580917 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3580917 I wonder that YC doesn't include an hour session on "how to write a job post that your target audience won't classify as spam."
- larrys 15y ago
  Good point. Don't know the answer so.. Just posted an "Ask PG" on that. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3729354 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3729354

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

stray 15y ago

Whippersnappers.

jf271 15y ago
Yes, they are. I raised three girls and got them all through college on my dime and by next year they will all have either MS or MBA degrees that they paid for themselves. A much tougher job than anything they could throw at me.

1123581321 15y ago

I rarely am attracted to job listings here. They are nearly always poorly written and reveal various flaws of the founders.

caw 15y ago
I look forward to the job postings. I always try to see how many cliches can be put into one job posting. This one didn't have too many. At minimum they need to add something about partying hard. Anyone up for "HN Job Posting" bingo? I think overall the posts on the monthly looking for work or freelancers threads are higher quality job postings than the ones we get from the YC companies.
codeonfire 15y ago
The adds are targeted for early 20 something's by early 20 somethings and so reflect that thinking. No one should be surprised when they read like frat ads during rush week.
- aorshan 15y ago
  I take a bit of offense to that. I am an early 20 something and I thought that was a useless and uninformative job posting that held exactly 0 appeal to me.
  - codeonfire 15y ago
    Great, maybe advertisers will change their ads.

codeonfire 15y ago

No well experienced engineer is going to respond to these types of ads because of the horrible visions of projects passed, unrealistic inexperienced bro bosses, and an understanding that relying on hard work alone is not going to be good enough. These ads are targeted at college kids because they are mostly made by 18-20 year old YC founders.

dirkdeman 15y ago

This particular job posting not only failed to mention one single thing that would appeal to me (or any well-thinking person for that matter), but it also agitated me. Listing the stack is an attribute, not an advantage. So is the location, SF is a great city but that alone does not make me want to apply. The fact that you’re a small team working long hours on hard problems? To me, it screams ‘NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE’. So you have funding and users? Wow. How much? How many? What is it you’re doing? Furthermore, the complete and utter lack of information, coupled with a shifty Gmail address almost makes me think it’s a scam. It just puzzles me why people create job listings like this. In today’s job market for skilled engineers could you at least TRY to persuade me to apply?

jetti 15y ago
It may scream "NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE" but at least they are honest about it. Being upfront about it is much better than going through the interviews and being told one thing but when you start working it turns out "hey, we need you to work more hours" which is what happened to me currently.