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It comes down what you actually want to do. My time spent on the iPad was defined by what I couldn't do, and it was extremely frustrating, I ended up not doing

It comes down what you actually want to do. My time spent on the iPad was defined by what I couldn't do, and it was extremely frustrating, I ended up not doing it instead of go getting the laptop from across the house. Windows is not refined nor optimized for tablet use by any measure, but it actually does the job, instead of showing a cute and extremely refined middle finger half the time. The breaking point for me was the reader apps, where I'd have a file and just no way to read it, short of taking 10 min on a desktop to somewhat convert it to what the iPad can handle (see below). Since they're also in a pissing match with Amazon, the reading experience is just subpar. What's the point of a simple and elegant interface if I'm still babysitting what's going in there and have to constantly think about work-arounds that also end up clunky and broken ? > Art and note apps Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version, and not some compromised "on the go" version. Same for One-note, obsidian etc., there's no lack of them on Windows while it was a fresh market on the iPad. > ebook reader apps I think iBooks is the only reader you don't get (is there a web version ? I have no idea). Granted I buy most of my books on kindle, the in-browser reader works well enough (in the end, I'm full screen turning pages, so makes no difference). I'd argue getting the read the book straight from the page I bought them is pretty great. I didn't bother with the android subsystem version but it would be an option if there is any limitation on the web part. I also have a bunch of old ebooks and scans from way before there were stores, and of course they were better handled by the windows apps (at some point I was using CloudReader on iOS, and it just disappeared).

emodendroket 3y ago
I don’t know about anyone else but my expectations are not for my iPad to be suitable for serious development work or whatever. I want to read books and magazines, surf the Web, and watch videos. And for that it’s arguably better than a laptop. At least I find myself using it for those things much more.
- nradov 3y ago
  Right, but the inability to do serious software development is an arbitrary limit imposed by Apple. The hardware is quite capable, but the vendor has decided that we need to use multiple different devices. It's their platform and they can do what they like with it, but as a customer those artificial limitations rankle.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    They’d have to do something more than just throw XCode on it for it to be in any way usable without full on keyboard and mouse, which would cut against what they’re trying to do. So there is some justification beyond just market segmentation.
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      Why? Having xcode usable just with (their 350€+) keyboard seems perfectly acceptable.
      - emodendroket 3y ago
        For the same reason they deliberately made iphone apps look bad -- they want applications designed to work with the device to make it a good experience and not applications designed for something else shoehorned in. I see some real wisdom in this approach considering how poor some of the alternative experiences are. Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach?
        wiseowise 3y ago
        > Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach? Right now it’s inferior not-a-laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach and people still buy it.
        emodendroket 3y ago
        Not really. It’s instead a different device offering an experience that doesn’t require a keyboard or mouse at all.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Why would it become worse if they add support for keyboard and mouse on top of it?
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  You still hit weird limits. Perhaps the M1 is a better value proposition now, but with the A series transcoding videos was choppy at best, and you'd have to choose to "share" them to VLC every damn time. Youtube playback would stop everytime another video starts playing somewhere (additional fun when it's just a video ad that actually had no sound in the first place). SMB file management is still an afterthought, so you end up needing a plex server dealing with all the complexity the iPad can't deal with. Browsing is the same, outside of the Safari limitation, extensions are few and tab management a pain in general. For books and magazine it's kinda the same. It works fine for light use. It becomes frustrating if it's something you actually care about. In the end, I realized I actually care less about visual polish and more about having complete functionalities, at the price of dealing with Windows and managing a computer instead of an appliance.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    I believe you but in the end I use it a lot more than my laptop despite its limitations and generally don’t want to try and do the things you’re talking about with it (I’d probably be sitting at my desk with my real computer if I wanted to).
nicbou 3y ago
> Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version, and not some compromised "on the go" version This is what made me sell the Surface. I wanted to replace a paper notebook I bring everywhere. What I got was tiny buttons, menus, and a save dialog every time I wanted to close the app. My drawings were not drawings in a sketchbook, but files I had to manually sort and access on a filesystem. After spending a whole day installing updates and turning off ads and tracking, I couldn't just unwind and doodle. The Surface constantly reminded me that I was operating a computer, not drawing. > ebooks The in-browser reader is not a replacement for an offline book reader. This tablet is offline most of the time. > obsidian I want to write and doodle, not edit markdown files. Otherwise I'd have no use for a tablet. This tablet replaces a paper notebook.
- 8note 3y ago
  My surface is a whiteboarding tool. https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/sketchpal/9MVT92NRF5MX?hl=en-us&gl=us https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/sketchpal/9MVT92NRF5... Does a pretty good job
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Sketchable literally works on the "my drawings are a sketchbook" idea. Apps like CSP on iOS use the file save dialogs too.
kaba0 3y ago
For what it’s worth, you can have ishell installed, put the file you want to convert into its drive, download almost any x86 binary to convert it, and you can use it, all from your ipad. Sure, not the most convenient way, but there is no replacing something like pandoc.
numpad0 3y ago
> > Art and note apps > Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version Speaking of those, does the Pencil still feel somewhat half baked for Apple? The display front panels on iPads aren't "optimized" for pens, like, given rigidity and texturing for front panels. I don't own the iPad kit nor am I a digital artist, but the Pencil as a physical object almost feels like poking acrylic panel with laundry hangars, and most third party feeling among all third party pens. and I didn't understand how they could sell it as a serious thing.
QuarterReptile 3y ago
Ironically, whatever the other advantages of the Surface Pro as a tablet, it's so hampered by physical dimensions for reading to make the rest of the question moot. I had a SP3 for 6 years as a primary laptop, but it was not a good offering for reading. Maybe more recent ones have improved the aspect ratio, weight and distribution, and bezels.

emodendroket 3y ago

I don’t know about anyone else but my expectations are not for my iPad to be suitable for serious development work or whatever. I want to read books and magazines, surf the Web, and watch videos. And for that it’s arguably better than a laptop. At least I find myself using it for those things much more.

nradov 3y ago
Right, but the inability to do serious software development is an arbitrary limit imposed by Apple. The hardware is quite capable, but the vendor has decided that we need to use multiple different devices. It's their platform and they can do what they like with it, but as a customer those artificial limitations rankle.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  They’d have to do something more than just throw XCode on it for it to be in any way usable without full on keyboard and mouse, which would cut against what they’re trying to do. So there is some justification beyond just market segmentation.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    Why? Having xcode usable just with (their 350€+) keyboard seems perfectly acceptable.
    - emodendroket 3y ago
      For the same reason they deliberately made iphone apps look bad -- they want applications designed to work with the device to make it a good experience and not applications designed for something else shoehorned in. I see some real wisdom in this approach considering how poor some of the alternative experiences are. Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach?
      - wiseowise 3y ago
        > Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach? Right now it’s inferior not-a-laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach and people still buy it.
        emodendroket 3y ago
        Not really. It’s instead a different device offering an experience that doesn’t require a keyboard or mouse at all.
        wiseowise 3y ago
        Why would it become worse if they add support for keyboard and mouse on top of it?
makeitdouble 3y ago
You still hit weird limits. Perhaps the M1 is a better value proposition now, but with the A series transcoding videos was choppy at best, and you'd have to choose to "share" them to VLC every damn time. Youtube playback would stop everytime another video starts playing somewhere (additional fun when it's just a video ad that actually had no sound in the first place). SMB file management is still an afterthought, so you end up needing a plex server dealing with all the complexity the iPad can't deal with. Browsing is the same, outside of the Safari limitation, extensions are few and tab management a pain in general. For books and magazine it's kinda the same. It works fine for light use. It becomes frustrating if it's something you actually care about. In the end, I realized I actually care less about visual polish and more about having complete functionalities, at the price of dealing with Windows and managing a computer instead of an appliance.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  I believe you but in the end I use it a lot more than my laptop despite its limitations and generally don’t want to try and do the things you’re talking about with it (I’d probably be sitting at my desk with my real computer if I wanted to).

nicbou 3y ago

> Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version, and not some compromised "on the go" version This is what made me sell the Surface. I wanted to replace a paper notebook I bring everywhere. What I got was tiny buttons, menus, and a save dialog every time I wanted to close the app. My drawings were not drawings in a sketchbook, but files I had to manually sort and access on a filesystem. After spending a whole day installing updates and turning off ads and tracking, I couldn't just unwind and doodle. The Surface constantly reminded me that I was operating a computer, not drawing. > ebooks The in-browser reader is not a replacement for an offline book reader. This tablet is offline most of the time. > obsidian I want to write and doodle, not edit markdown files. Otherwise I'd have no use for a tablet. This tablet replaces a paper notebook.

8note 3y ago
My surface is a whiteboarding tool. https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/sketchpal/9MVT92NRF5MX?hl=en-us&gl=us https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/sketchpal/9MVT92NRF5... Does a pretty good job
goosedragons 3y ago
Sketchable literally works on the "my drawings are a sketchbook" idea. Apps like CSP on iOS use the file save dialogs too.

kaba0 3y ago

For what it’s worth, you can have ishell installed, put the file you want to convert into its drive, download almost any x86 binary to convert it, and you can use it, all from your ipad. Sure, not the most convenient way, but there is no replacing something like pandoc.

numpad0 3y ago

> > Art and note apps > Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version Speaking of those, does the Pencil still feel somewhat half baked for Apple? The display front panels on iPads aren't "optimized" for pens, like, given rigidity and texturing for front panels. I don't own the iPad kit nor am I a digital artist, but the Pencil as a physical object almost feels like poking acrylic panel with laundry hangars, and most third party feeling among all third party pens. and I didn't understand how they could sell it as a serious thing.

QuarterReptile 3y ago

Ironically, whatever the other advantages of the Surface Pro as a tablet, it's so hampered by physical dimensions for reading to make the rest of the question moot. I had a SP3 for 6 years as a primary laptop, but it was not a good offering for reading. Maybe more recent ones have improved the aspect ratio, weight and distribution, and bezels.