4 ms·

Do you have an explanation for China’s low tourism? Is it just latent fears of COVID?

jamesaurichs 3y ago
Here are some conjectures: 1.) There is a very high dislike of China across the world. Large majorities in most of the 19 countries surveyed have negative views of China https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/29/negative-views-of-china-tied-to-critical-views-of-its-policies-on-human-rights/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/29/negative-views... 2.) No business need to travel there. Foreign investment is down 90% this year. Literally no US/europe presence in the trade fairs in China the summer. 3.) Flights are super expensive, because of low demand, upwards of $5k-10k. travel out of China is down hugely due to the economy, you can search on youTube for videos from Shanghai airport where the airport is devoid of travelers, and filled with empty shops. 4.) It is very hard for travelers to navigate through China. No English translations in street signs. One needs Alipay to pay for anything in China, which is complicated to setup. Ethnocentrism from rising nationalism means there could be racism/violence against travelers.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  I traveled to Shanghai in 2018 for business. Attitudes were mixed, but mostly impressed by the pace of development. Flights were cheap for the amount of fuel required ($1200). The (Japanese) OEM I was subcontracting for wanted to install and train the operators using the same equipment in their US final assembly plants as in the Chinese factories where the subassemblies were made. I studied the FSI Mandarin course enough to catch a few basic phrases and read a little pinyin, and I set up Alipay on arrival with a small amount of help from my host. The only shortcoming from a travel perspective was that I ran out of my (TSA-approved) travel-size deodorant and could not find Western deodorant in any of the shops. On the one hand, it's staggering to me how rapid the pace of change against China has been. On the other hand, it was also staggering how rapidly they were modernizing and building in 2018.
- resolutebat 3y ago
  Flights are super expensive because of high demand. They're limited not because people don't want to fly, but because China still hasn't fully ramped down the tit-for-tat COVID restrictions that at one point only allowed one flight per week per airline from the US to China.
- MissingAFew 3y ago
  That's not even true anymore, I recently bought a ticket for 1100. They don't cost 5k to 10k.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    My end shows $4-9k economy, $10-12k premium.
    - MissingAFew 3y ago
      On what time frame? I bought one for around February. Maybe if you are buying same day it's that expensive?
      - mensetmanusman 3y ago
        2 weeks out. That’s arguably a reasonable timeframe in the business world (at least, pre Xi-mageddon).
samcheng 3y ago
I doubt it's about COVID now. The government has really ruined China's "brand" internationally. 1. You need an onerous-to-obtain visa to visit. There is no visa exemption. 2. Banking is a total pain for a foreigner. Many places only accept Alipay or Wechat, which require a Chinese bank account. Cash doesn't work well either, because the largest denomination is tiny. 3. Many US-China flights were canceled in the pandemic and never restarted afterwards. As a result, flights to China are expensive. 4. The Western apps are commonly blocked in China, and the local apps don't have an English translation. Your smartphone is a lot less useful in China. 5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage. 6. Lots of reports of hostile behavior toward westerners... The list could go on. There's a reason e.g. Japanese tourism is booming!
- throwaway1777 3y ago
  Perfect list. Sums it up completely
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > 5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage. Even Hong Kong, these days.
- zeagle 3y ago
  7. I have no desire to be a political prisoner abducted to leverage a concession from the west. Same reason I would avoid Russia, North Korea, or probably areas of Mexico with cartels. See Michael Spavor, Michael Kovrig, and Brit Gringer.
  - samcheng 3y ago
    I doubt they would do that to an average schmuck like me, but the fact that it's a common consideration shows how far the Chinese government has fallen in the international public's perception. It's a shame, too. China has some really great cultural sites, substantial natural beauty, cosmopolitan cities, and excellent and varied cuisine. It would be a great tourist destination under a different government.
slyall 3y ago
Shortages of Flights, Geopolitical tensions, Perception that society/government is unfriendly to foreigners. Also starting from zero since covid restrictions. https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-latest-problem-people-dont-want-to-go-there-7d17a83a https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-latest-problem-people-do...
orangepurple 3y ago
China is fully prepared to go to war today. They have these restrictions in place to reduce complications when the war is declared.
tjpnz 3y ago
Why would I want to travel somewhere where the government thinks I, as a person from "the west", am the literal embodiment of satan? On a more personal note I've had a family member recently return from living in China. Harassment from local law enforcement had a large part to play.
- MissingAFew 3y ago
  I'm sorry your family experienced that but that is not the norm, to be frank. ...Literal embodiment of Satan? What? You do realize they don't follow Christianity right? Nonsense. Overblown exaggeration.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    It’s a figure of speech. Possibly poking at the fact the CCP is scared enough to be tearing down mosques/churches all over?

Here are some conjectures: 1.) There is a very high dislike of China across the world. Large majorities in most of the 19 countries surveyed have negative views of China https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/29/negative-views-of-china-tied-to-critical-views-of-its-policies-on-human-rights/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/29/negative-views... 2.) No business need to travel there. Foreign investment is down 90% this year. Literally no US/europe presence in the trade fairs in China the summer. 3.) Flights are super expensive, because of low demand, upwards of $5k-10k. travel out of China is down hugely due to the economy, you can search on youTube for videos from Shanghai airport where the airport is devoid of travelers, and filled with empty shops. 4.) It is very hard for travelers to navigate through China. No English translations in street signs. One needs Alipay to pay for anything in China, which is complicated to setup. Ethnocentrism from rising nationalism means there could be racism/violence against travelers.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago
I traveled to Shanghai in 2018 for business. Attitudes were mixed, but mostly impressed by the pace of development. Flights were cheap for the amount of fuel required ($1200). The (Japanese) OEM I was subcontracting for wanted to install and train the operators using the same equipment in their US final assembly plants as in the Chinese factories where the subassemblies were made. I studied the FSI Mandarin course enough to catch a few basic phrases and read a little pinyin, and I set up Alipay on arrival with a small amount of help from my host. The only shortcoming from a travel perspective was that I ran out of my (TSA-approved) travel-size deodorant and could not find Western deodorant in any of the shops. On the one hand, it's staggering to me how rapid the pace of change against China has been. On the other hand, it was also staggering how rapidly they were modernizing and building in 2018.
resolutebat 3y ago
Flights are super expensive because of high demand. They're limited not because people don't want to fly, but because China still hasn't fully ramped down the tit-for-tat COVID restrictions that at one point only allowed one flight per week per airline from the US to China.
MissingAFew 3y ago
That's not even true anymore, I recently bought a ticket for 1100. They don't cost 5k to 10k.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  My end shows $4-9k economy, $10-12k premium.
  - MissingAFew 3y ago
    On what time frame? I bought one for around February. Maybe if you are buying same day it's that expensive?
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      2 weeks out. That’s arguably a reasonable timeframe in the business world (at least, pre Xi-mageddon).

samcheng 3y ago

I doubt it's about COVID now. The government has really ruined China's "brand" internationally. 1. You need an onerous-to-obtain visa to visit. There is no visa exemption. 2. Banking is a total pain for a foreigner. Many places only accept Alipay or Wechat, which require a Chinese bank account. Cash doesn't work well either, because the largest denomination is tiny. 3. Many US-China flights were canceled in the pandemic and never restarted afterwards. As a result, flights to China are expensive. 4. The Western apps are commonly blocked in China, and the local apps don't have an English translation. Your smartphone is a lot less useful in China. 5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage. 6. Lots of reports of hostile behavior toward westerners... The list could go on. There's a reason e.g. Japanese tourism is booming!

throwaway1777 3y ago
Perfect list. Sums it up completely
andsoitis 3y ago
> 5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage. Even Hong Kong, these days.
zeagle 3y ago
7. I have no desire to be a political prisoner abducted to leverage a concession from the west. Same reason I would avoid Russia, North Korea, or probably areas of Mexico with cartels. See Michael Spavor, Michael Kovrig, and Brit Gringer.
- samcheng 3y ago
  I doubt they would do that to an average schmuck like me, but the fact that it's a common consideration shows how far the Chinese government has fallen in the international public's perception. It's a shame, too. China has some really great cultural sites, substantial natural beauty, cosmopolitan cities, and excellent and varied cuisine. It would be a great tourist destination under a different government.

slyall 3y ago

Shortages of Flights, Geopolitical tensions, Perception that society/government is unfriendly to foreigners. Also starting from zero since covid restrictions. https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-latest-problem-people-dont-want-to-go-there-7d17a83a https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-latest-problem-people-do...

orangepurple 3y ago

China is fully prepared to go to war today. They have these restrictions in place to reduce complications when the war is declared.

tjpnz 3y ago

Why would I want to travel somewhere where the government thinks I, as a person from "the west", am the literal embodiment of satan? On a more personal note I've had a family member recently return from living in China. Harassment from local law enforcement had a large part to play.

MissingAFew 3y ago
I'm sorry your family experienced that but that is not the norm, to be frank. ...Literal embodiment of Satan? What? You do realize they don't follow Christianity right? Nonsense. Overblown exaggeration.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  It’s a figure of speech. Possibly poking at the fact the CCP is scared enough to be tearing down mosques/churches all over?