4 ms·

Parent's point still stands as in a decent ecosystem you'd get down to at most two. For instance a phone and a Surface Pro covers 100% of the use cases, there'

Parent's point still stands as in a decent ecosystem you'd get down to at most two. For instance a phone and a Surface Pro covers 100% of the use cases, there's no gap for a 3rd device. For some this gets down to one device with a Galaxy Fold and DEX. People might have different preferences and/or be locked in the Apple ecosystem anyway, but we have working products showing things done differently ("think different" was such a good copy)

nicbou 3y ago
The iPad is a much better tablet than the Surface. The art and note apps are incomparably better. The ebook reader apps too. iPad OS is limited, but it's fine for reading, writing and sketching. It's good to do that on a separate device that is not connected to work stuff. I can bring my iPad in the bedroom because it's just a fancy book. Windows is also far too needy for this sort of device. I returned my Surface after a day because of updates, notifications, tracking and a complete lack of respect for the user. My iPad is such a calm device by comparison.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  It comes down what you actually want to do. My time spent on the iPad was defined by what I couldn't do, and it was extremely frustrating, I ended up not doing it instead of go getting the laptop from across the house. Windows is not refined nor optimized for tablet use by any measure, but it actually does the job, instead of showing a cute and extremely refined middle finger half the time. The breaking point for me was the reader apps, where I'd have a file and just no way to read it, short of taking 10 min on a desktop to somewhat convert it to what the iPad can handle (see below). Since they're also in a pissing match with Amazon, the reading experience is just subpar. What's the point of a simple and elegant interface if I'm still babysitting what's going in there and have to constantly think about work-arounds that also end up clunky and broken ? > Art and note apps Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version, and not some compromised "on the go" version. Same for One-note, obsidian etc., there's no lack of them on Windows while it was a fresh market on the iPad. > ebook reader apps I think iBooks is the only reader you don't get (is there a web version ? I have no idea). Granted I buy most of my books on kindle, the in-browser reader works well enough (in the end, I'm full screen turning pages, so makes no difference). I'd argue getting the read the book straight from the page I bought them is pretty great. I didn't bother with the android subsystem version but it would be an option if there is any limitation on the web part. I also have a bunch of old ebooks and scans from way before there were stores, and of course they were better handled by the windows apps (at some point I was using CloudReader on iOS, and it just disappeared).
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    I don’t know about anyone else but my expectations are not for my iPad to be suitable for serious development work or whatever. I want to read books and magazines, surf the Web, and watch videos. And for that it’s arguably better than a laptop. At least I find myself using it for those things much more.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Right, but the inability to do serious software development is an arbitrary limit imposed by Apple. The hardware is quite capable, but the vendor has decided that we need to use multiple different devices. It's their platform and they can do what they like with it, but as a customer those artificial limitations rankle.
      - emodendroket 3y ago
        They’d have to do something more than just throw XCode on it for it to be in any way usable without full on keyboard and mouse, which would cut against what they’re trying to do. So there is some justification beyond just market segmentation.
        diffeomorphism 3y ago
        Why? Having xcode usable just with (their 350€+) keyboard seems perfectly acceptable.
        emodendroket 3y ago
        For the same reason they deliberately made iphone apps look bad -- they want applications designed to work with the device to make it a good experience and not applications designed for something else shoehorned in. I see some real wisdom in this approach considering how poor some of the alternative experiences are. Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach?
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  That's just software, though. In a decent ecosystem you would be able to run any software you want on any device you want.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    Oftentimes being able to run whatever you want makes it harder to provide a cohesive, consistent experience that’s pleasant to use. Look at X vs. Mac or even Windows to see what I mean. The inconsistency of that experience has imo been a major factor holding back desktop Linux (notably, locked-down Linux-derived environments seem to do fine).
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      the two aren't mutually exclusive, apple can give the consistent experience and also have an "okay, you're the owner of this device, you make the rules, not Steve Jobs" setting that isn't as beautiful but also doesn't try to boss around the user
- ricardobayes 3y ago
  The other competitors have just as much tracking, just windows makes it more transparent to opt in (to some of it), so it's more visible.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  Incomparably better? Nebo on Windows is more or less the same as the iOS version, ditto apps like Liquidtext and Noteshelf. Plus there's full fat OneNote and MS Journal which I like. For art apps, Procreate is very good but it's still kinda limited. Windows has the full Photoshop, CSP, Art Rage etc. experiences. And with WSA you can just grab the Android versions of Kindle or whatever. And is really respectful of the user to artificially kneecap a device from doing tasks?
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > The iPad is a much better tablet than the Surface but useless as a computer? I needed to apply for a visa -It can't even handle that simple task! Like all I had to do, is collaste togesther a few dozen documents (bank statements, utility bills, etc.), merge all them into PDfs and organise pages cronologically. Couldn't even do that. whats the point of having a great processor in an iPad if it's all wasted. This is a deal braker for me, handling official documents is a normal thing normal people have to do every day.
  - nicbou 3y ago
    That's the point. I tried unifying those devices and couldn't. Now I carry both.
  - blokey 3y ago
    That sounds odd. Even without installing any apps from the AppStore it can do that. Open the PDF (or print the webpage to PDF if needed), tap to insert other PDFs into that one (so assembling / merging the documents). Drag any pages into the order you want, save the file. What’s missing?
  - ubermonkey 3y ago
    >but useless as a computer? LOLNO. Many, many people use an iPad as their primary or only nonphone computer. Sounds like you had a tool chain problem, not an iPad problem.
gizajob 3y ago
You forget that vast swathes of us are never going to risk buying a Microsoft/Windows device ever again. They blew it too many times with BSOD / updates kicking in during work / viruses / whatever horror this week.

nicbou 3y ago

The iPad is a much better tablet than the Surface. The art and note apps are incomparably better. The ebook reader apps too. iPad OS is limited, but it's fine for reading, writing and sketching. It's good to do that on a separate device that is not connected to work stuff. I can bring my iPad in the bedroom because it's just a fancy book. Windows is also far too needy for this sort of device. I returned my Surface after a day because of updates, notifications, tracking and a complete lack of respect for the user. My iPad is such a calm device by comparison.

makeitdouble 3y ago
It comes down what you actually want to do. My time spent on the iPad was defined by what I couldn't do, and it was extremely frustrating, I ended up not doing it instead of go getting the laptop from across the house. Windows is not refined nor optimized for tablet use by any measure, but it actually does the job, instead of showing a cute and extremely refined middle finger half the time. The breaking point for me was the reader apps, where I'd have a file and just no way to read it, short of taking 10 min on a desktop to somewhat convert it to what the iPad can handle (see below). Since they're also in a pissing match with Amazon, the reading experience is just subpar. What's the point of a simple and elegant interface if I'm still babysitting what's going in there and have to constantly think about work-arounds that also end up clunky and broken ? > Art and note apps Adobe suite, ClipStudio etc. are all there, in their actual, professional, full-blown version, and not some compromised "on the go" version. Same for One-note, obsidian etc., there's no lack of them on Windows while it was a fresh market on the iPad. > ebook reader apps I think iBooks is the only reader you don't get (is there a web version ? I have no idea). Granted I buy most of my books on kindle, the in-browser reader works well enough (in the end, I'm full screen turning pages, so makes no difference). I'd argue getting the read the book straight from the page I bought them is pretty great. I didn't bother with the android subsystem version but it would be an option if there is any limitation on the web part. I also have a bunch of old ebooks and scans from way before there were stores, and of course they were better handled by the windows apps (at some point I was using CloudReader on iOS, and it just disappeared).
- emodendroket 3y ago
  I don’t know about anyone else but my expectations are not for my iPad to be suitable for serious development work or whatever. I want to read books and magazines, surf the Web, and watch videos. And for that it’s arguably better than a laptop. At least I find myself using it for those things much more.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Right, but the inability to do serious software development is an arbitrary limit imposed by Apple. The hardware is quite capable, but the vendor has decided that we need to use multiple different devices. It's their platform and they can do what they like with it, but as a customer those artificial limitations rankle.
    - emodendroket 3y ago
      They’d have to do something more than just throw XCode on it for it to be in any way usable without full on keyboard and mouse, which would cut against what they’re trying to do. So there is some justification beyond just market segmentation.
      - diffeomorphism 3y ago
        Why? Having xcode usable just with (their 350€+) keyboard seems perfectly acceptable.
        emodendroket 3y ago
        For the same reason they deliberately made iphone apps look bad -- they want applications designed to work with the device to make it a good experience and not applications designed for something else shoehorned in. I see some real wisdom in this approach considering how poor some of the alternative experiences are. Ultimately why would you buy it if it's just an inferior laptop with a touchscreen that you can detach?
TheCoelacanth 3y ago
That's just software, though. In a decent ecosystem you would be able to run any software you want on any device you want.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Oftentimes being able to run whatever you want makes it harder to provide a cohesive, consistent experience that’s pleasant to use. Look at X vs. Mac or even Windows to see what I mean. The inconsistency of that experience has imo been a major factor holding back desktop Linux (notably, locked-down Linux-derived environments seem to do fine).
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    the two aren't mutually exclusive, apple can give the consistent experience and also have an "okay, you're the owner of this device, you make the rules, not Steve Jobs" setting that isn't as beautiful but also doesn't try to boss around the user
ricardobayes 3y ago
The other competitors have just as much tracking, just windows makes it more transparent to opt in (to some of it), so it's more visible.
goosedragons 3y ago
Incomparably better? Nebo on Windows is more or less the same as the iOS version, ditto apps like Liquidtext and Noteshelf. Plus there's full fat OneNote and MS Journal which I like. For art apps, Procreate is very good but it's still kinda limited. Windows has the full Photoshop, CSP, Art Rage etc. experiences. And with WSA you can just grab the Android versions of Kindle or whatever. And is really respectful of the user to artificially kneecap a device from doing tasks?
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> The iPad is a much better tablet than the Surface but useless as a computer? I needed to apply for a visa -It can't even handle that simple task! Like all I had to do, is collaste togesther a few dozen documents (bank statements, utility bills, etc.), merge all them into PDfs and organise pages cronologically. Couldn't even do that. whats the point of having a great processor in an iPad if it's all wasted. This is a deal braker for me, handling official documents is a normal thing normal people have to do every day.
- nicbou 3y ago
  That's the point. I tried unifying those devices and couldn't. Now I carry both.
- blokey 3y ago
  That sounds odd. Even without installing any apps from the AppStore it can do that. Open the PDF (or print the webpage to PDF if needed), tap to insert other PDFs into that one (so assembling / merging the documents). Drag any pages into the order you want, save the file. What’s missing?
- ubermonkey 3y ago
  >but useless as a computer? LOLNO. Many, many people use an iPad as their primary or only nonphone computer. Sounds like you had a tool chain problem, not an iPad problem.

gizajob 3y ago

You forget that vast swathes of us are never going to risk buying a Microsoft/Windows device ever again. They blew it too many times with BSOD / updates kicking in during work / viruses / whatever horror this week.