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Like all things Apple, iPad is great if you only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for. The moment you start to be beyond that slightly it

Like all things Apple, iPad is great if you only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for. The moment you start to be beyond that slightly it completely falls apart. Contrast it to a more general computer running macOS or Windows, which does a poorer job at what iPad does best, but it has a much longer tail where the complexity ramps up linearly, compared to the hockey stick of iOS.

gizajob 3y ago
At the same time though, limited tools can lead to creativity. I know we're in the company of coders with complex workflows, but using and understanding a limited tool well to the point where you can max it out can be better than living with a "long tail" of untapped power and productivity. Strange though, how the iPad is ostensibly a much better device given the touchscreen and keyboard (and now pencil) and yet remains somehow less useful than a MacBook. Might also be an issue of perception that the iPad can't do certain things well, when it almost can. From a user standpoint, having a device that really is like an appliance that never blinks or goes wrong is pretty brilliant. Windows has let me down on that front too many times for too many years, and now the only time I use it I live in a web browser 99.9% of the time (in a university library)...
- zakki 3y ago
  Creativity also happened in unlimited environments. That’s why there are many more use cases for computer/laptop.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Does it? I find creative solutions very rarely occur when I am actually using a computer rather than sitting back and thinking or going for a walk etc. Computers seem to be awesome tools for refining ideas yet really bad at facilitating their creation.
    - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
      There is no shortage of limitations in real life or on a massively powerful desktop computer. People on desktop are not gods. Nor are they unlimited. I don't know what creative solutions you're talking about but unless we're talking about things making art with limited colors and resolutions which is only necessary because that's what the customer has, there is not much point in limiting oneself artificially unless you are truly stuck otherwise or are doing it for its own sake on some sort of metaphysical quest
      - gizajob 3y ago
        In the case of music and recording, often times better and more creative records were made by people having to devise complicated solutions to having technology with huge limitations - a famous example being that Sgt Pepper by the Beatles was made using tape machines that were limited to four tracks. Hence those involved had to think deeply and be inspired to find solutions to “defeat the machine” (in the words of Paul McCartney). Compare this to the state of affairs today where people are virtually “gods” in terms of power - the number of audio tracks, sounds, editing capabilities of someone using Logic is essentially unlimited, and yet music hasn’t responded very much to the technology because now the machine is incredible and powerful to the point where it basically cannot be defeated - almost nobody can even come close to utilising the power and capabilities offered. We haven’t had an explosion of novel forms and a wealth of newness, people just use them to clone what was produced in the past but cheaper and more quickly. The horizon of the canvas of a DAW is really too huge to ever get to the end of, and it’s almost overwhelming for most artists to rise to the challenge of, so they just stick with the limitations and live an easier life. There’s been no great flourishing of 21st century music with the emergence of this power, we’re mostly stuck in forms and genres created in the 20th century. There’s also an analogous situation in hip-hop with the very limited SP-1200 and MPC 60 samplers. They don’t do much but what they do, they do well, so it’s up to producers to work to that and try to transcend it. Having an unlimited workspace in the computer to replicate the same doesn’t lead to better hip hop. So you’re right to invoke metaphysics, because the machines have a kind of ontology, same as the mode of life of the artists using them. It doesn’t have to be a metaphysical quest, but there can be better and more interesting ways of creating on limited tools, particularly if you’ve used them for a long time. Some writers such as Jean Baudrillard stuck with typewriters as a writing tool long after the introduction of the desktop computer (he died in 2007) because he found it was simpler and better, less distracting, more focussed on the word and him. You could invoke the same “omfg you could be pasting in hyperlinks and doing referencing and surfing at the same time you’re just doing it for your own sake!” toward someone like that, but actually it’s not for its own sake, he only needs to think and produce text and it’s the perfect tool for that, the computer is only ever pretending to be a typewriter and comes with a load of noise and headache alongside.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  You think that Jason Snell, completely sold into the iPad-only lifestyle for many years, who records and edits podcasts on his iPad, is limited by his perception of iPad's ability?
  - linster 3y ago
    This is rage farming. Parent post says using a limited tool well is fine, can lead to good results. “The best camera is the one you have with you” is common photography advice Whether or not the author is limited by his perception of iPad’s ability is needless hair-splitting.
- thrashh 3y ago
  In this case, the limitation is more on developers of iPad apps than users. It’s making developers more creative but I don’t think it’s making users more creative.
  - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
    there is nothing creative about swiping on an app to update a feed of algorithmic nonsense, true. which is 99% of what people do on phones in my experience. even tablets.
    - gizajob 3y ago
      Yeah but it’s not Apple’s fault the general public are lazy and stupid. I’m a creative and don’t do those things so much - I make records and read philosophy and write whatever book takes my fancy on the same device. It’s not Apple’s fault that when given a handheld supercomputer people use it for instagram - a black mirror reflects the good and bad of the human and that’s where we are. Steve Jobs really did want to make “a bicycle for the mind* and for some of us it is the most amazing one of those, just for the rest it’s too much power and responsibility, so the Californian capitalists at Infinite Loop are going to profit of them anyway.
      - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
        I do remember breaking my ankle on my bicycle as a child; I don't recall having to jailbreak my bike, though. How does BitTorrent work via the app store by the way? Kappa.
        gizajob 3y ago
        I think you’re mixing apples and oranges.
        iraqmtpizza 3y ago
        Okay. How does BitTorrent work outside of the app store on iPhone?
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Gotta love the discussions on HN about Apple, it doesn't take long till somebody starts arguing that less is better and you don't actually know what you really want and what's the best for you, on Hacker news I guess some people like to be managed and set strict boundaries, but that's a far cry from creativity. If creativity happens, as it always does, its despite these hard limits
  - gizajob 3y ago
    Or, “regardless of” these hard limits. I’ve used a PowerBook / MacBook since about 2002, and even had one with me at the time when I was writing, but nevertheless found the iPad Air a perfect tool for the task at hand. I needed to read and write and create, and it did that brilliantly. When I needed to get more involved and manage heaps of files and format them into a multi-gigabyte publication, yeah of course I switched to doing that on a MacBook, but it remains that I wasn’t hamstrung in creative terms by carrying an iPad around all day, and indeed, more inspired by being able to use a computer more often and more effectively. Some of the images in my book were also taken with the iPad, which the MacBook couldn’t have done. So yeah, some limitations but some new freedoms.
gcanyon 3y ago
> only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for Only if you stipulate that it was never designed to handle text editing, multi-object selection, and a number of other fundamental use cases that apparently no one at Apple bothers to do on their iPads — if they did, they’d either 1. Experiment to find better solutions; or 2. Admit that there is no good touch-based solution for this UX scenario.
tiffanyh 3y ago
> ”Like all things Apple, iPad is great if you only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for.” That’s actually the definition of a product. To create something for specific use cases. That’s not an Apple problem/issue. Sure, I could use my Toyota Camry (iPad) to haul lumber - but it’d make more sense to use a truck (MacBook) that was designed for those use cases.
- legends2k 3y ago
  Totally respect this viewpoint. I think the parent comment is about the shame of having a powerful device that could be programmed but is locked down only because the manufacturer thought so: an iPad can do a lot more but isn't allowed to just for it to appear as an appliance. In your analogy, it's like a truck is clothed as a Camry but it really needn't be. I guess it's the difference between a geek's and generalist's viewpoints.
  - guidoism 3y ago
    Hmm, maybe…? I think there’s a difference in people who are thinking the power and abilities and differences come from the hardware and those who think it’s the software. Now clearly the hardware is different too. But I think the whole “appliance” thing is software. Maybe refining the argument to: It’s a Camry with the same horsepower as the truck? Funny thing I was at the hardware store today looking at modern trucks and was laughing to myself that they seem so much more car-like than when Steve Jobs made that comment. They have pretty interiors with cup holders and infotainment centers. And cars these days have horsepower approaching trucks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - djfdat 3y ago
      It's like having a truck that can haul lumber, and anything smaller, but is restricted to specifally only hauling groceries.
      - tiffanyh 3y ago
        Food for thought … Why are people trying to use a tool it wasn’t designed for? Eg the iPad does not have a built in keyboard. Why are people trying to use it to write long form essays/books when it’s designed default keyboard is on display - and then they get upset at Apple.
tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
> Like all things Apple … > … computer running macOS …
megablast 3y ago
Limited case?? Come on. Slightly harder does not equal fall part.
aeontech 3y ago
looks at beardyman's insane live music setup running a mix of open source and commercial software on a six iPad matrix deck I would argue that some form factors are better for some use cases, others for other use cases, and we are still figuring out how to best take advantage of each particular form factor. Despite how popular it seems to be, I think framing it as "it's bad for certain use cases because Apple is evil" is a bit reductionist, and sort of gives up on the power we do have to mold tools to our needs.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  Beardyman still uses a laptop running Ableton as the central hub for his rig. It's 5 ipads and a laptop. The iPads are all just controllers. You can see it in this short explanation video at the very start. And when he goes into the explanation, the very first thing he says is that the iPads control Ableton. https://youtube.com/watch?v=yp5ICEWmtuQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=yp5ICEWmtuQ
  - aeontech 3y ago
    You're right, five iPads, drum pad(?) and laptop - I just remembered the two-by-six grid off the top of my head. Thanks for clarifying!
bee_rider 3y ago
Unlike most everything else Apple, the degree to which iPads seem to dominate the tablet market is interesting. In general tablets never really caught on, but to the extent that people want tablets, they apparently actually want exactly the use case Apple envisioned.
nortonham 3y ago
what else do you want to do with your tablet?

gizajob 3y ago

At the same time though, limited tools can lead to creativity. I know we're in the company of coders with complex workflows, but using and understanding a limited tool well to the point where you can max it out can be better than living with a "long tail" of untapped power and productivity. Strange though, how the iPad is ostensibly a much better device given the touchscreen and keyboard (and now pencil) and yet remains somehow less useful than a MacBook. Might also be an issue of perception that the iPad can't do certain things well, when it almost can. From a user standpoint, having a device that really is like an appliance that never blinks or goes wrong is pretty brilliant. Windows has let me down on that front too many times for too many years, and now the only time I use it I live in a web browser 99.9% of the time (in a university library)...

zakki 3y ago
Creativity also happened in unlimited environments. That’s why there are many more use cases for computer/laptop.
- Retric 3y ago
  Does it? I find creative solutions very rarely occur when I am actually using a computer rather than sitting back and thinking or going for a walk etc. Computers seem to be awesome tools for refining ideas yet really bad at facilitating their creation.
  - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
    There is no shortage of limitations in real life or on a massively powerful desktop computer. People on desktop are not gods. Nor are they unlimited. I don't know what creative solutions you're talking about but unless we're talking about things making art with limited colors and resolutions which is only necessary because that's what the customer has, there is not much point in limiting oneself artificially unless you are truly stuck otherwise or are doing it for its own sake on some sort of metaphysical quest
    - gizajob 3y ago
      In the case of music and recording, often times better and more creative records were made by people having to devise complicated solutions to having technology with huge limitations - a famous example being that Sgt Pepper by the Beatles was made using tape machines that were limited to four tracks. Hence those involved had to think deeply and be inspired to find solutions to “defeat the machine” (in the words of Paul McCartney). Compare this to the state of affairs today where people are virtually “gods” in terms of power - the number of audio tracks, sounds, editing capabilities of someone using Logic is essentially unlimited, and yet music hasn’t responded very much to the technology because now the machine is incredible and powerful to the point where it basically cannot be defeated - almost nobody can even come close to utilising the power and capabilities offered. We haven’t had an explosion of novel forms and a wealth of newness, people just use them to clone what was produced in the past but cheaper and more quickly. The horizon of the canvas of a DAW is really too huge to ever get to the end of, and it’s almost overwhelming for most artists to rise to the challenge of, so they just stick with the limitations and live an easier life. There’s been no great flourishing of 21st century music with the emergence of this power, we’re mostly stuck in forms and genres created in the 20th century. There’s also an analogous situation in hip-hop with the very limited SP-1200 and MPC 60 samplers. They don’t do much but what they do, they do well, so it’s up to producers to work to that and try to transcend it. Having an unlimited workspace in the computer to replicate the same doesn’t lead to better hip hop. So you’re right to invoke metaphysics, because the machines have a kind of ontology, same as the mode of life of the artists using them. It doesn’t have to be a metaphysical quest, but there can be better and more interesting ways of creating on limited tools, particularly if you’ve used them for a long time. Some writers such as Jean Baudrillard stuck with typewriters as a writing tool long after the introduction of the desktop computer (he died in 2007) because he found it was simpler and better, less distracting, more focussed on the word and him. You could invoke the same “omfg you could be pasting in hyperlinks and doing referencing and surfing at the same time you’re just doing it for your own sake!” toward someone like that, but actually it’s not for its own sake, he only needs to think and produce text and it’s the perfect tool for that, the computer is only ever pretending to be a typewriter and comes with a load of noise and headache alongside.
madeofpalk 3y ago
You think that Jason Snell, completely sold into the iPad-only lifestyle for many years, who records and edits podcasts on his iPad, is limited by his perception of iPad's ability?
- linster 3y ago
  This is rage farming. Parent post says using a limited tool well is fine, can lead to good results. “The best camera is the one you have with you” is common photography advice Whether or not the author is limited by his perception of iPad’s ability is needless hair-splitting.
thrashh 3y ago
In this case, the limitation is more on developers of iPad apps than users. It’s making developers more creative but I don’t think it’s making users more creative.
- iraqmtpizza 3y ago
  there is nothing creative about swiping on an app to update a feed of algorithmic nonsense, true. which is 99% of what people do on phones in my experience. even tablets.
  - gizajob 3y ago
    Yeah but it’s not Apple’s fault the general public are lazy and stupid. I’m a creative and don’t do those things so much - I make records and read philosophy and write whatever book takes my fancy on the same device. It’s not Apple’s fault that when given a handheld supercomputer people use it for instagram - a black mirror reflects the good and bad of the human and that’s where we are. Steve Jobs really did want to make “a bicycle for the mind* and for some of us it is the most amazing one of those, just for the rest it’s too much power and responsibility, so the Californian capitalists at Infinite Loop are going to profit of them anyway.
    - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
      I do remember breaking my ankle on my bicycle as a child; I don't recall having to jailbreak my bike, though. How does BitTorrent work via the app store by the way? Kappa.
      - gizajob 3y ago
        I think you’re mixing apples and oranges.
        iraqmtpizza 3y ago
        Okay. How does BitTorrent work outside of the app store on iPhone?
saiya-jin 3y ago
Gotta love the discussions on HN about Apple, it doesn't take long till somebody starts arguing that less is better and you don't actually know what you really want and what's the best for you, on Hacker news I guess some people like to be managed and set strict boundaries, but that's a far cry from creativity. If creativity happens, as it always does, its despite these hard limits
- gizajob 3y ago
  Or, “regardless of” these hard limits. I’ve used a PowerBook / MacBook since about 2002, and even had one with me at the time when I was writing, but nevertheless found the iPad Air a perfect tool for the task at hand. I needed to read and write and create, and it did that brilliantly. When I needed to get more involved and manage heaps of files and format them into a multi-gigabyte publication, yeah of course I switched to doing that on a MacBook, but it remains that I wasn’t hamstrung in creative terms by carrying an iPad around all day, and indeed, more inspired by being able to use a computer more often and more effectively. Some of the images in my book were also taken with the iPad, which the MacBook couldn’t have done. So yeah, some limitations but some new freedoms.

gcanyon 3y ago

> only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for Only if you stipulate that it was never designed to handle text editing, multi-object selection, and a number of other fundamental use cases that apparently no one at Apple bothers to do on their iPads — if they did, they’d either 1. Experiment to find better solutions; or 2. Admit that there is no good touch-based solution for this UX scenario.

tiffanyh 3y ago

> ”Like all things Apple, iPad is great if you only use it for the exact, limited use cases it was designed for.” That’s actually the definition of a product. To create something for specific use cases. That’s not an Apple problem/issue. Sure, I could use my Toyota Camry (iPad) to haul lumber - but it’d make more sense to use a truck (MacBook) that was designed for those use cases.

legends2k 3y ago
Totally respect this viewpoint. I think the parent comment is about the shame of having a powerful device that could be programmed but is locked down only because the manufacturer thought so: an iPad can do a lot more but isn't allowed to just for it to appear as an appliance. In your analogy, it's like a truck is clothed as a Camry but it really needn't be. I guess it's the difference between a geek's and generalist's viewpoints.
- guidoism 3y ago
  Hmm, maybe…? I think there’s a difference in people who are thinking the power and abilities and differences come from the hardware and those who think it’s the software. Now clearly the hardware is different too. But I think the whole “appliance” thing is software. Maybe refining the argument to: It’s a Camry with the same horsepower as the truck? Funny thing I was at the hardware store today looking at modern trucks and was laughing to myself that they seem so much more car-like than when Steve Jobs made that comment. They have pretty interiors with cup holders and infotainment centers. And cars these days have horsepower approaching trucks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - djfdat 3y ago
    It's like having a truck that can haul lumber, and anything smaller, but is restricted to specifally only hauling groceries.
    - tiffanyh 3y ago
      Food for thought … Why are people trying to use a tool it wasn’t designed for? Eg the iPad does not have a built in keyboard. Why are people trying to use it to write long form essays/books when it’s designed default keyboard is on display - and then they get upset at Apple.

tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago

> Like all things Apple … > … computer running macOS …

megablast 3y ago

Limited case?? Come on. Slightly harder does not equal fall part.

aeontech 3y ago

looks at beardyman's insane live music setup running a mix of open source and commercial software on a six iPad matrix deck I would argue that some form factors are better for some use cases, others for other use cases, and we are still figuring out how to best take advantage of each particular form factor. Despite how popular it seems to be, I think framing it as "it's bad for certain use cases because Apple is evil" is a bit reductionist, and sort of gives up on the power we do have to mold tools to our needs.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
squeaky-clean 3y ago
Beardyman still uses a laptop running Ableton as the central hub for his rig. It's 5 ipads and a laptop. The iPads are all just controllers. You can see it in this short explanation video at the very start. And when he goes into the explanation, the very first thing he says is that the iPads control Ableton. https://youtube.com/watch?v=yp5ICEWmtuQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=yp5ICEWmtuQ
- aeontech 3y ago
  You're right, five iPads, drum pad(?) and laptop - I just remembered the two-by-six grid off the top of my head. Thanks for clarifying!

bee_rider 3y ago

Unlike most everything else Apple, the degree to which iPads seem to dominate the tablet market is interesting. In general tablets never really caught on, but to the extent that people want tablets, they apparently actually want exactly the use case Apple envisioned.

nortonham 3y ago

what else do you want to do with your tablet?