3 ms·

Why would it? The EU is just protecting its own member states' IT industries and its own interest in undermining encrypted communications.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
> The EU is just protecting its own partner states' IT industries Doesn’t the GDPR go back to a largely grassroots effort, including from members of the Pirate Party phenomenon that people initially scoffed at? I have no doubt that there has been local IT lobbying, but one cannot deny some level of true popular will.
- seydor 3y ago
  The green party was a small german party with lots of access to powerful eu people I very much doubt this was anywhere near "grassroots" to the italians That is not even how eu politics work
  - orwin 3y ago
    The pirate party, not the green party, had a bit of support in Scandinavia, a lot less in Germany, and in France, in 2011, they could barely present 200 candidates in 50k areas, and i'm pretty sure their only access to 'powerful' people was the condescending sympathy of a single billionaire and maybe some secret service. And a single member in the French parliament (900+) ever listened to pro-liberty lobbies like lqdn, and fought for it. So yes, it's pretty grassroots.
    - seydor 3y ago
      the gdpr was initiated by german greens
      - orwin 3y ago
        Legislatively, yes. Politically, it's from ex-members of the 2011 pirate party (many of its members ended up in the greens). And I'm arguing against 'it's not grassroot'. My argument is that it's as grassroot as support for Snowden, wikilealks, whistle-blower protection. Because all of the was in the 2011 pirate party manifesto. It happened that only this legislation caught interest of other parties, but it's origin is grassroot. Have you heard of framasoft?
- asu_thomas 3y ago
  > one cannot deny some level of true popular will I have never even heard anyone suggest such a thing. Whether a fringe grassroots privacy politics effort existed in Sweden at the time is not up for debate. It absolutely did, but it was not "popular" by any stretch of the imagination. Average voters simply don't care about privacy, no matter which country you're in. The EU was explicitly formed to compete with the US economically. Nobody should be surprised if their most flagship legislation to date is motivated by the same intent. Furthermore, it is being generous to say the EU is a pseudo-democratic institution. If an actually popular privacy movement did exist in Sweden at some point, the chances of it penetrating the EU are slim to none, and the chances of it having any political influence in the EU are even lower.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > It absolutely did, but it was not "popular" by any stretch of the imagination. Average voters simply don't care about privacy, no matter which country you're in. Go tell Germans that with their very recent memories of Stasi. You can even tell Swedes that with their very explicit laws against mixing and accessing various government databases. > Nobody should be surprised if their most flagship legislation to date is motivated by the same intent. Instead of parroting whatever the latest internet conspiracy is, you could actually go and read the legislation, and have an opinion of your own.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes it does. The whole idea that grassroots organizations and - gasp - actual voters are behind the DPD and later the GDPR is something that some people have problems with, they would prefer it if the EU government was playing some shady protectionist game rather than to work on behalf of EU citizens, who very much appreciate them standing up to big telcos and big tech. Google is so afraid of the EU legislators that they have literally plastered the whole of Brussels Airport ('Zaventem' for the locals) with wall to wall ads on how fantastically pro-end-user privacy they are. It's comical.
troupo 3y ago
Ah yes. It should just ... checks notes ... let corporations do whatever they want to do
BartjeD 3y ago
The GDPR is part of a much longer and older saga concerning 'data sovereignty'. US courts have in the past repeatedly forced EU companies to divulge personal data and business information, in US lawsuits (discovery etc..). The reasons the US justices always gave for allowing this, was that there were no sanctions for these EU companies making it illegal to cooperate with such judicial processes. The GDPR expressly forbids this and also applies tough sanctions on companies and regimes that try to force it. By making it illegal to do business with such countries. This is why Privacy Shield is so important for the US and the EU, it hashes out to what extent the US may infringe on EU data sovereignty. And vice-versa.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

> The EU is just protecting its own partner states' IT industries Doesn’t the GDPR go back to a largely grassroots effort, including from members of the Pirate Party phenomenon that people initially scoffed at? I have no doubt that there has been local IT lobbying, but one cannot deny some level of true popular will.

seydor 3y ago
The green party was a small german party with lots of access to powerful eu people I very much doubt this was anywhere near "grassroots" to the italians That is not even how eu politics work
- orwin 3y ago
  The pirate party, not the green party, had a bit of support in Scandinavia, a lot less in Germany, and in France, in 2011, they could barely present 200 candidates in 50k areas, and i'm pretty sure their only access to 'powerful' people was the condescending sympathy of a single billionaire and maybe some secret service. And a single member in the French parliament (900+) ever listened to pro-liberty lobbies like lqdn, and fought for it. So yes, it's pretty grassroots.
  - seydor 3y ago
    the gdpr was initiated by german greens
    - orwin 3y ago
      Legislatively, yes. Politically, it's from ex-members of the 2011 pirate party (many of its members ended up in the greens). And I'm arguing against 'it's not grassroot'. My argument is that it's as grassroot as support for Snowden, wikilealks, whistle-blower protection. Because all of the was in the 2011 pirate party manifesto. It happened that only this legislation caught interest of other parties, but it's origin is grassroot. Have you heard of framasoft?
asu_thomas 3y ago
> one cannot deny some level of true popular will I have never even heard anyone suggest such a thing. Whether a fringe grassroots privacy politics effort existed in Sweden at the time is not up for debate. It absolutely did, but it was not "popular" by any stretch of the imagination. Average voters simply don't care about privacy, no matter which country you're in. The EU was explicitly formed to compete with the US economically. Nobody should be surprised if their most flagship legislation to date is motivated by the same intent. Furthermore, it is being generous to say the EU is a pseudo-democratic institution. If an actually popular privacy movement did exist in Sweden at some point, the chances of it penetrating the EU are slim to none, and the chances of it having any political influence in the EU are even lower.
- troupo 3y ago
  > It absolutely did, but it was not "popular" by any stretch of the imagination. Average voters simply don't care about privacy, no matter which country you're in. Go tell Germans that with their very recent memories of Stasi. You can even tell Swedes that with their very explicit laws against mixing and accessing various government databases. > Nobody should be surprised if their most flagship legislation to date is motivated by the same intent. Instead of parroting whatever the latest internet conspiracy is, you could actually go and read the legislation, and have an opinion of your own.
jacquesm 3y ago
Yes it does. The whole idea that grassroots organizations and - gasp - actual voters are behind the DPD and later the GDPR is something that some people have problems with, they would prefer it if the EU government was playing some shady protectionist game rather than to work on behalf of EU citizens, who very much appreciate them standing up to big telcos and big tech. Google is so afraid of the EU legislators that they have literally plastered the whole of Brussels Airport ('Zaventem' for the locals) with wall to wall ads on how fantastically pro-end-user privacy they are. It's comical.

troupo 3y ago

Ah yes. It should just ... checks notes ... let corporations do whatever they want to do

BartjeD 3y ago

The GDPR is part of a much longer and older saga concerning 'data sovereignty'. US courts have in the past repeatedly forced EU companies to divulge personal data and business information, in US lawsuits (discovery etc..). The reasons the US justices always gave for allowing this, was that there were no sanctions for these EU companies making it illegal to cooperate with such judicial processes. The GDPR expressly forbids this and also applies tough sanctions on companies and regimes that try to force it. By making it illegal to do business with such countries. This is why Privacy Shield is so important for the US and the EU, it hashes out to what extent the US may infringe on EU data sovereignty. And vice-versa.