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Postponing cliff explosives makes be extremely sad. I'm perfectionist freak and my factorio gameplay basically divides "before" and "after" cliff explosives. I

Postponing cliff explosives makes be extremely sad. I'm perfectionist freak and my factorio gameplay basically divides "before" and "after" cliff explosives. I hate when I can't fix terrain for my plans, I prefer to terraform as much as needed, turning lake into plains, if needed, but I'm not going to adapt my grand plan. I understand that there are players who find fun in adapting their bases to the environment, building defenses around natural obstacles, but I'm completely the opposite of that. It's deep grained in my nature: to bend the world rather than to bend my plans. Hopefully they'll rethink that part. And may be even make it possible to "build" water (or to build water pump at arbitrary locations).

pmoriarty 3y ago
You could just disable cliffs during world generation. That's what I do. They're slightly helpful for biter defense, but otherwise they're just annoying. There are also many mods that let you pump water from anywhere.
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  I'm not a fan of custom modes and mods. I might go this way, if there's no other choice, however generally I prefer to play game as it was intended to be played by developers.
  - gdprrrr 3y ago
    It's definitely intenfed by the developers to play however you have the most fun. That's why they included the option, just like the peaceful mode.
  - johannes1234321 3y ago
    Factorio was clearly meant to be moddable and to be modded. The API is by no means a pure afterthought.
  - eknkc 3y ago
    I play vanilla except I always disable cliffs. That's it. I sometimes edit resource distribution if I wish to experiment with specific transports etc but cliffs always go away. I don't care what they intended as it is not fun for me.
    - quchen 3y ago
      There was a time before cliffs, and the game was fine. IIRC cliffs were also meant to give the explosive tree at least some non-warfare utility. They can be cool in the beginning, while later on they’re a chore in my experience.
  - pmoriarty 3y ago
    Intended or not, I've found playing with mods way, way more fun (and much less annoying) than playing vanilla Factorio (which I still love, but not nearly as much as modded Factorio). After my first vanilla playthrough I loved the game, but found a bunch of things annoying or which I thought could be improved on. Soon after I found there were mods to satisfy every one of my wants and cure every one of the annoyances. I've played with mods ever since and love it. Want longer reach? There are mods for that. Want faster travel? There are mods for that. Want more variety in vehicles? There are mods for that. Want smarter/tougher/different enemies? There are mods for that. Want a complete overhaul of how the game plays? There are a bunch mods for that. ...and thousands of other mods beyond these. You're really missing out by avoiding mods.
    - mcv 3y ago
      I've played vanilla a couple of times, and recently started my first modded game, using Krastorio 2. That seemed to be the most recommended mod, and it's been great. Pretty much every question of "wouldn't it be cool if..." or "wouldn't it make more sense if..." that I ever asked myself playing vanilla, Krastorio 2 answers with "yes". Yes, it would make more sense if the car didn't run on coal but required more advanced fuel. Yes, it would make more sense if there were more ways to generate power. Yes, it would make more sense if complex early game machinery required a bit more than some metal plates. And yes, it would be cool if your crashed spaceship had some useable components. The one downside is that fighting creepers is too easy. The anti-material rifle has too much range, letting me snipe them from a position of invulnerability. Also, there's way too much chemistry possible. I'm completely lost in it.
      - pmoriarty 3y ago
        "The one downside is that fighting creepers is too easy. The anti-material rifle has too much range, letting me snipe them from a position of invulnerability." Maybe you could increase their evolution rate, pollution, or give the Rampant mod a try.
        mcv 3y ago
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    It's not a mod. It's a setting in base game.
  - _wf2l 3y ago
    but you're arguing against the intention as they put it in?
- bombcar 3y ago
  I really wish there was an option for "no cliffs within X distance" or something. My "dream world" would have the starting area for maybe 100 blocks have some cliffs for early biter funneling and a bit of a challenge, then just flat world for 1000 blocks, and then back to cliffs. Or make it so you can manually mine cliffs very slowly before explosives.
  - 12345hn6789 3y ago
    Pretty sure if you set the starting area to the max size it does exactly what you asked
rollcat 3y ago
Fortunately Factorio is the kind of game where nobody has the right to tell you how you're supposed to play. I'm sure if this change makes it to 2.0 (heck maybe even during an open beta, which I'm sure will drop at some point), there will be a mod that reshuffles the tech tree. You can also always tweak the mapgen parameters for Nauvis to produce less cliffs, or use a console command. Some of these will disable achievements, but anyway, the true achievement in this game is simply the number of hours you sunk in ;)
jprete 3y ago
I had a similar reaction. But my read of the post is that rockets, space science, and other planets are now the mid-game, so cliff explosives are probably still mid-game tech, not end-game.
zer8k 3y ago
> . I'm perfectionist freak and my factorio gameplay basically divides "before" and "after" cliff explosives. I adopt the strategy of "field expedient base" which gets me to almost where I need to be, and then after expanding, I begin building a megabase with more technology and convert the field expedient base to a resource factory. Then I can transport processed resources by train to any number of places. It's not that annoying once you realize that's kind of how you're supposed to expand. The natural obstacles are a godsend once you start playing on the harder modes. Water, however, has always been a constant annoyance to me. But I am a purist and refuse to install mods because as far as I can tell the game is basically perfect without them.
- ghusbands 3y ago
  > as far as I can tell the game is basically perfect without them Do you still have to use a sideways-facing underground belt to take items from one side of a belt, blocking the other side? Are there yet any pleasant ways to overlap belts? I feel like far too much effort is spent on working around odd limitations.
  - zer8k 3y ago
    Not really. Or at least, none that I've found. There's belt magic you can do with splitters and underground belts that is pretty cool. But yeah, the limitations still exist. From what I understand mods can fix it.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > Do you still have to use a sideways-facing underground belt to take items from one side of a belt, blocking the other side? Unless you have multiple items on both sides of that belt, you can use the filtering feature they built into splitters a long time ago. > Are there yet any pleasant ways to overlap belts? What does overlap mean? If you're trying to get multiple belts of throughput in a space that only fits one normal belt, I would not call that an "odd limitation".
Vvector 3y ago
I'm like you. I always disabled cliffs in the worldgen.

pmoriarty 3y ago

You could just disable cliffs during world generation. That's what I do. They're slightly helpful for biter defense, but otherwise they're just annoying. There are also many mods that let you pump water from anywhere.

vbezhenar 3y ago
I'm not a fan of custom modes and mods. I might go this way, if there's no other choice, however generally I prefer to play game as it was intended to be played by developers.
- gdprrrr 3y ago
  It's definitely intenfed by the developers to play however you have the most fun. That's why they included the option, just like the peaceful mode.
- johannes1234321 3y ago
  Factorio was clearly meant to be moddable and to be modded. The API is by no means a pure afterthought.
- eknkc 3y ago
  I play vanilla except I always disable cliffs. That's it. I sometimes edit resource distribution if I wish to experiment with specific transports etc but cliffs always go away. I don't care what they intended as it is not fun for me.
  - quchen 3y ago
    There was a time before cliffs, and the game was fine. IIRC cliffs were also meant to give the explosive tree at least some non-warfare utility. They can be cool in the beginning, while later on they’re a chore in my experience.
- pmoriarty 3y ago
  Intended or not, I've found playing with mods way, way more fun (and much less annoying) than playing vanilla Factorio (which I still love, but not nearly as much as modded Factorio). After my first vanilla playthrough I loved the game, but found a bunch of things annoying or which I thought could be improved on. Soon after I found there were mods to satisfy every one of my wants and cure every one of the annoyances. I've played with mods ever since and love it. Want longer reach? There are mods for that. Want faster travel? There are mods for that. Want more variety in vehicles? There are mods for that. Want smarter/tougher/different enemies? There are mods for that. Want a complete overhaul of how the game plays? There are a bunch mods for that. ...and thousands of other mods beyond these. You're really missing out by avoiding mods.
  - mcv 3y ago
    I've played vanilla a couple of times, and recently started my first modded game, using Krastorio 2. That seemed to be the most recommended mod, and it's been great. Pretty much every question of "wouldn't it be cool if..." or "wouldn't it make more sense if..." that I ever asked myself playing vanilla, Krastorio 2 answers with "yes". Yes, it would make more sense if the car didn't run on coal but required more advanced fuel. Yes, it would make more sense if there were more ways to generate power. Yes, it would make more sense if complex early game machinery required a bit more than some metal plates. And yes, it would be cool if your crashed spaceship had some useable components. The one downside is that fighting creepers is too easy. The anti-material rifle has too much range, letting me snipe them from a position of invulnerability. Also, there's way too much chemistry possible. I'm completely lost in it.
    - pmoriarty 3y ago
      "The one downside is that fighting creepers is too easy. The anti-material rifle has too much range, letting me snipe them from a position of invulnerability." Maybe you could increase their evolution rate, pollution, or give the Rampant mod a try.
      - mcv 3y ago
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  It's not a mod. It's a setting in base game.
- _wf2l 3y ago
  but you're arguing against the intention as they put it in?
bombcar 3y ago
I really wish there was an option for "no cliffs within X distance" or something. My "dream world" would have the starting area for maybe 100 blocks have some cliffs for early biter funneling and a bit of a challenge, then just flat world for 1000 blocks, and then back to cliffs. Or make it so you can manually mine cliffs very slowly before explosives.
- 12345hn6789 3y ago
  Pretty sure if you set the starting area to the max size it does exactly what you asked

rollcat 3y ago

Fortunately Factorio is the kind of game where nobody has the right to tell you how you're supposed to play. I'm sure if this change makes it to 2.0 (heck maybe even during an open beta, which I'm sure will drop at some point), there will be a mod that reshuffles the tech tree. You can also always tweak the mapgen parameters for Nauvis to produce less cliffs, or use a console command. Some of these will disable achievements, but anyway, the true achievement in this game is simply the number of hours you sunk in ;)

jprete 3y ago

I had a similar reaction. But my read of the post is that rockets, space science, and other planets are now the mid-game, so cliff explosives are probably still mid-game tech, not end-game.

zer8k 3y ago

> . I'm perfectionist freak and my factorio gameplay basically divides "before" and "after" cliff explosives. I adopt the strategy of "field expedient base" which gets me to almost where I need to be, and then after expanding, I begin building a megabase with more technology and convert the field expedient base to a resource factory. Then I can transport processed resources by train to any number of places. It's not that annoying once you realize that's kind of how you're supposed to expand. The natural obstacles are a godsend once you start playing on the harder modes. Water, however, has always been a constant annoyance to me. But I am a purist and refuse to install mods because as far as I can tell the game is basically perfect without them.

ghusbands 3y ago
> as far as I can tell the game is basically perfect without them Do you still have to use a sideways-facing underground belt to take items from one side of a belt, blocking the other side? Are there yet any pleasant ways to overlap belts? I feel like far too much effort is spent on working around odd limitations.
- zer8k 3y ago
  Not really. Or at least, none that I've found. There's belt magic you can do with splitters and underground belts that is pretty cool. But yeah, the limitations still exist. From what I understand mods can fix it.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > Do you still have to use a sideways-facing underground belt to take items from one side of a belt, blocking the other side? Unless you have multiple items on both sides of that belt, you can use the filtering feature they built into splitters a long time ago. > Are there yet any pleasant ways to overlap belts? What does overlap mean? If you're trying to get multiple belts of throughput in a space that only fits one normal belt, I would not call that an "odd limitation".

Vvector 3y ago

I'm like you. I always disabled cliffs in the worldgen.