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I think humans will always create their own goals, drama, and social structure. I look at Burning Man for an inspirational example of what a post-capitalist ec

I think humans will always create their own goals, drama, and social structure. I look at Burning Man for an inspirational example of what a post-capitalist economy could look like; a bunch of people bringing cool art together, not for any monetary gain, but simply because it’s cool to watch people enjoying something you built. Now, if AI gets better at doing even that (rather than just freeing us from toil by producing radical material abundance) then things could get fraught. For me the most scary end state (that still involves humans in control and existing) is mainlining / wireheading on generated VR content that is in a feedback loop with brain scanners to maximize hedonic enjoyment. Plausibly this could displace our more-human desires and drives. But I think there is a big gap between “automation frees us from toil” and “automated maximization of uniquely human art”.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
To be FAIR, I started my original comment quoting the author of the article, who didn't say AI freeing us from toil would be a utopia. He specifically said, "provide for our every need". Big difference.
- theptip 3y ago
  I see, that wasn’t how I read “wants” in that passage, but I agree it’s a valid interpretation. Maybe the author does intend to include everything up to the top of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs as “wants”. Will AI meet our needs for love, friendship, and self-actualization? That’s more problematic. Though I could still see room for utopia if it does; would the world not be a better place if there was “universal basic friendship” and nobody was completely abandoned? In that world we might still prefer human companions, yet never fall into complete loneliness.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
I’m not sure Burning Man today is a good example for post-capitalist idealism. Longtime veterans of the event have complained that Burning Man today (and for years now) is largely attended and driven by people who spend most of the year acquiring wealth through cutthroat capitalist means, and then only come to the event to blow off steam.
- theptip 3y ago
  Good point, I should have clarified on time period, my experience was circa early 2010s, and I hear it’s more commercialized now. I didn’t intend to claim that BM is actually solving these problems or going in the right direction, just that in a specific time and place and community, there was a glimpse of something very different. (I understand it’s a lot to do with community size and selection effects.)

vouaobrasil 3y ago

To be FAIR, I started my original comment quoting the author of the article, who didn't say AI freeing us from toil would be a utopia. He specifically said, "provide for our every need". Big difference.

theptip 3y ago
I see, that wasn’t how I read “wants” in that passage, but I agree it’s a valid interpretation. Maybe the author does intend to include everything up to the top of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs as “wants”. Will AI meet our needs for love, friendship, and self-actualization? That’s more problematic. Though I could still see room for utopia if it does; would the world not be a better place if there was “universal basic friendship” and nobody was completely abandoned? In that world we might still prefer human companions, yet never fall into complete loneliness.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

I’m not sure Burning Man today is a good example for post-capitalist idealism. Longtime veterans of the event have complained that Burning Man today (and for years now) is largely attended and driven by people who spend most of the year acquiring wealth through cutthroat capitalist means, and then only come to the event to blow off steam.

theptip 3y ago
Good point, I should have clarified on time period, my experience was circa early 2010s, and I hear it’s more commercialized now. I didn’t intend to claim that BM is actually solving these problems or going in the right direction, just that in a specific time and place and community, there was a glimpse of something very different. (I understand it’s a lot to do with community size and selection effects.)