11 ms·

The only one I subtly disagree with is "comments should be substantive". What it discourages I think is comments like "thanks" or other really 'unsubstantive' c

by naillo 3y ago

The only one I subtly disagree with is "comments should be substantive". What it discourages I think is comments like "thanks" or other really 'unsubstantive' comments. It's true that maybe it adds noise, and in many cases are maybe supposed to be inferred without explicitly saying. But I think discouraging this slightly leans behaviour towards snark vs not. (If you see comments like "thanks" you're less likely to be snarky than if you see 'substantive' but maybe too harsh critiques in the comments that appear because "cool project!" isn't allowed.) Personally I like to make it a point to break this rule from time to time to reduce this pattern.

bdcravens 3y ago
Yes, but it also discourages "cool story bro", "ok boomer", "no cap" etc
1123581321 3y ago
Same. I think it's especially important to thank someone when they might otherwise assume you'll want to pick apart with their response to you, after you've asked them to write it. One feature I've thought of would be for someone in a conversation thread to know if the other participant upvoted their last comment. Giving someone an upvote and not replying would send a strong positive signal without taking up more space.
- SushiHippie 3y ago
  That is okay Comment from dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249
  - permo-w 3y ago
    whether it's allowed or not is probably less pertinent than whether it'll get downvoted. I've never seen a flagged comment that was just "thanks", but I suspect I probably have seen a heavily downvoted one, although I can't think of a specific example
    - SushiHippie 3y ago
      That's why dang raises awareness that this is allowed, because most of the people (i guess) downvote because they think it is against the guidelines.
      - permo-w 3y ago
        fair
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I'd really love a separate "thanks" interface element that only the person you replied to can use.
  - noduerme 3y ago
    This. Perhaps even with a very short note attached, visible to the person you're thanking but not visible in the main thread.
- zogrodea 3y ago
  That suggestion about upvoting might work. It has less of a human element than a typed/written reply though (instead of someone typing text to express positive intent, it's someone incrementing a number to express positive intent), and it does sound more desolate/lonely from that perspective. Although I don't know how much it matters. Here's an exchange from a book I thought of while typing this comment, to illustrate my meaning. `But he could not resist the temptation to speak and to awaken a little human warmth around him. “A pity for the car,” he said. “Foreign cars cost quite a bit of gold, and after half a year on our roads they are finished.” “There you are quite right. Our roads are very backward,” said the old official. By his tone Rubashov realized that he had understood his helplessness. He felt like a dog to whom one had just thrown a bone; he decided not to speak again.`
  - mook 3y ago
    A lone "thanks" doesn't seem to contain very much human element in it either, though; that just feels like somebody wanted to make a comment but couldn't be bothered to provide detail. What specifically are they thanking? Does the link make their life a little better (and if yes, how, so that others could emulate making more people's lives better)? If it was in reply to a comment, did they just read it or actually try whatever it was? I think I dislike it because it reminds me of the busy exec replying with a single word, and that is definitely lacking in humanity.
    - zogrodea 3y ago
      That's true. Curtness does often sound negative. That's a good point I hadn't considered.
freedomben 3y ago
I agree, though I think for posts deserving a "thanks" it's not too hard to make it substantive. For example, if I wanted to thank you for this comment, I might say something like this: Thanks, that's very helpful. You make a good point about comments like "cool project!" not being allowed, which could cause the overall sentiment to feel skewed negative when it might actually be well received. That said, it can feel noisy and unhelpful to see a thread full of empty comments, so what if we had a thumbs up button or something that people could use to register "cool project" ? Maybe not practical, but just thinking through the problem a bit.
- krapp 3y ago
  I think the idea is that if you can't make a substantive comment, you refrain from commenting at all. It's a weird dynamic to have in a web forum, where people are essentially engaging in text-based conversations, but casual, emotive speech is discouraged because that's what Redditors do, and every keystroke brings us closer to Eternal September.
  - toofy 3y ago
    > I think the idea is that if you can't make a substantive comment, you refrain from commenting at all. me too. how many of our grandmothers repeatedly said, “if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” it’s wild to me to see how much The Internet has tried to pretend it can escape from things humans figured out were important a century ago. in a lot of ways we’ve collectively fooled ourselves into believing the people who came before us were all stupid. i mean, so many of the failures we’re seeing from companies or large communities have turned out to be our own hubris pretending as if The Internet wouldn’t have super basic, reaaaaally basic human problems like, “if you’re not nice, 1) people will be rude back and 2) a community full of assholes will _shockingly_ be a shitty place.” this is basic shit that even a social halfwit knows when they go out in public, but we (myself included) are hilariously relearning and pretending like it’s a deep revelation. if we can’t post anything nice, don’t post anything at all. we act liek this is complicated.
- bombcar 3y ago
burnished 3y ago
You can be substantive in your thanks making or praises. And if you cannot then maybe its OK that it doesn't get expressed as a one word 'thanks' post. I personally don't think this causes the community as a whole to lean snarky - that one might be a pre existing condition rather than the format. I also think the occasional rule breaking is good, 'I don't have anything substantial to say but your project means a lot to me and I'm grateful' is substantial in a way that default 'thanks' is not anyway.
JNRowe 3y ago
In the specific instance of a "thanks" message, I'll somewhat regularly send an out of band message to say thanks for helpful replies(or general comments). It doesn't pollute the threads for others, and I'd like to think the added cost of a personal note gives the reader a sense of the value I found in their writing. I'm yet to have any pushback on sending a thank you note, but who knows maybe it will upset some people in the future ;) Which - I guess - also deserves a "add some contact details to profile" note.
- zogrodea 3y ago
  That sounds like a wonderful idea. Thank you for suggesting it, and for doing it as well.
dang 3y ago
SushiHippie already said it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37252326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37252326), but pg made this point way back in https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html (2009): Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Whole subs on Reddit are essentially rendered worthless because the comments are all low-effort, meme responses. This is one of the only places I've been online where the discussion of Prigozhin's death wasn't just 500+ "Fell out of a window" comments. THANK YOU
  - 93po 3y ago
    You have my updoots good sir
  - vunderba 3y ago
    100%. Whenever I read somebody's response on an article, the first thing that lights up for me cognitively - "is this a reddit-level comment?". How many times have you seen a deeply nested Reddit thread where each reply is maybe a single sentence long, and they're all low hanging word puns? Just completely worthless threads that are all noise.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - yreg 3y ago
    I would really like an /r/worldnews clone with joke comments forbidden.
    - xp84 3y ago
      Isn’t /r/anime_titties the serious world news sub? AFAIK worldnews is crap due to bad moderation.
blackpill0w 3y ago
Isn't that (partly) the point of the upvote button?
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  A thanks (especially from the person the thanked comment is responding to) can serve as a validation that the information provided was useful and appropriate, which an upvote alone fails to convey. From my own recent history, this subthread: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37115294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37115294>.
jasonlotito 3y ago
Good news, you can! "Thanks" is 100% substantive! From dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249
johnnyanmac 3y ago
> But I think discouraging this slightly leans behaviour towards snark vs not. who are you thanking? the mechanics of HN means that a uesr would have to actively search around for a response, so odds are your thanks simply goes the ether.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  I partially "solved" this by bookmarking the page showing my most recent comments and their replies so I can skim it before going to the front-page. I understand the reasoning behind the functionality but there is a lot of knowledge in replies so I wouldn't want to be without it.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There is the 'threads' link at the top of the page, which shows you all your recent comments and their replies.
vunderba 3y ago
I disagree, there is an upload button which delivers the equivalent of thanks. I don't think it's too much to ask that an expression of gratitude also take the time to include something meaningful. This is one of the biggest differentiators from Reddit.
pkulak 3y ago
I almost always have something more than “thanks” to say. Like, “Good point about the enfabulator, I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks.” Or, “Oh yeah, I will have to try that way. Seems very promising. Thank you.”
dizhn 3y ago
I've never gotten in trouble for saying thanks. :) (Like anywhere)

by naillo 3y ago

bdcravens 3y ago

Yes, but it also discourages "cool story bro", "ok boomer", "no cap" etc

1123581321 3y ago

Same. I think it's especially important to thank someone when they might otherwise assume you'll want to pick apart with their response to you, after you've asked them to write it. One feature I've thought of would be for someone in a conversation thread to know if the other participant upvoted their last comment. Giving someone an upvote and not replying would send a strong positive signal without taking up more space.

SushiHippie 3y ago
That is okay Comment from dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249
- permo-w 3y ago
  whether it's allowed or not is probably less pertinent than whether it'll get downvoted. I've never seen a flagged comment that was just "thanks", but I suspect I probably have seen a heavily downvoted one, although I can't think of a specific example
  - SushiHippie 3y ago
    That's why dang raises awareness that this is allowed, because most of the people (i guess) downvote because they think it is against the guidelines.
    - permo-w 3y ago
      fair
sanderjd 3y ago
I'd really love a separate "thanks" interface element that only the person you replied to can use.
- noduerme 3y ago
  This. Perhaps even with a very short note attached, visible to the person you're thanking but not visible in the main thread.
zogrodea 3y ago
That suggestion about upvoting might work. It has less of a human element than a typed/written reply though (instead of someone typing text to express positive intent, it's someone incrementing a number to express positive intent), and it does sound more desolate/lonely from that perspective. Although I don't know how much it matters. Here's an exchange from a book I thought of while typing this comment, to illustrate my meaning. `But he could not resist the temptation to speak and to awaken a little human warmth around him. “A pity for the car,” he said. “Foreign cars cost quite a bit of gold, and after half a year on our roads they are finished.” “There you are quite right. Our roads are very backward,” said the old official. By his tone Rubashov realized that he had understood his helplessness. He felt like a dog to whom one had just thrown a bone; he decided not to speak again.`
- mook 3y ago
  A lone "thanks" doesn't seem to contain very much human element in it either, though; that just feels like somebody wanted to make a comment but couldn't be bothered to provide detail. What specifically are they thanking? Does the link make their life a little better (and if yes, how, so that others could emulate making more people's lives better)? If it was in reply to a comment, did they just read it or actually try whatever it was? I think I dislike it because it reminds me of the busy exec replying with a single word, and that is definitely lacking in humanity.
  - zogrodea 3y ago
    That's true. Curtness does often sound negative. That's a good point I hadn't considered.

freedomben 3y ago

I agree, though I think for posts deserving a "thanks" it's not too hard to make it substantive. For example, if I wanted to thank you for this comment, I might say something like this: Thanks, that's very helpful. You make a good point about comments like "cool project!" not being allowed, which could cause the overall sentiment to feel skewed negative when it might actually be well received. That said, it can feel noisy and unhelpful to see a thread full of empty comments, so what if we had a thumbs up button or something that people could use to register "cool project" ? Maybe not practical, but just thinking through the problem a bit.

krapp 3y ago
I think the idea is that if you can't make a substantive comment, you refrain from commenting at all. It's a weird dynamic to have in a web forum, where people are essentially engaging in text-based conversations, but casual, emotive speech is discouraged because that's what Redditors do, and every keystroke brings us closer to Eternal September.
- toofy 3y ago
  > I think the idea is that if you can't make a substantive comment, you refrain from commenting at all. me too. how many of our grandmothers repeatedly said, “if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” it’s wild to me to see how much The Internet has tried to pretend it can escape from things humans figured out were important a century ago. in a lot of ways we’ve collectively fooled ourselves into believing the people who came before us were all stupid. i mean, so many of the failures we’re seeing from companies or large communities have turned out to be our own hubris pretending as if The Internet wouldn’t have super basic, reaaaaally basic human problems like, “if you’re not nice, 1) people will be rude back and 2) a community full of assholes will _shockingly_ be a shitty place.” this is basic shit that even a social halfwit knows when they go out in public, but we (myself included) are hilariously relearning and pretending like it’s a deep revelation. if we can’t post anything nice, don’t post anything at all. we act liek this is complicated.
bombcar 3y ago

burnished 3y ago

You can be substantive in your thanks making or praises. And if you cannot then maybe its OK that it doesn't get expressed as a one word 'thanks' post. I personally don't think this causes the community as a whole to lean snarky - that one might be a pre existing condition rather than the format. I also think the occasional rule breaking is good, 'I don't have anything substantial to say but your project means a lot to me and I'm grateful' is substantial in a way that default 'thanks' is not anyway.

JNRowe 3y ago

In the specific instance of a "thanks" message, I'll somewhat regularly send an out of band message to say thanks for helpful replies(or general comments). It doesn't pollute the threads for others, and I'd like to think the added cost of a personal note gives the reader a sense of the value I found in their writing. I'm yet to have any pushback on sending a thank you note, but who knows maybe it will upset some people in the future ;) Which - I guess - also deserves a "add some contact details to profile" note.

zogrodea 3y ago
That sounds like a wonderful idea. Thank you for suggesting it, and for doing it as well.

dang 3y ago

SushiHippie already said it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37252326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37252326), but pg made this point way back in https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html (2009): Empty comments can be ok if they're positive. There's nothing wrong with submitting a comment saying just "Thanks." What we especially discourage are comments that are empty and negative—comments that are mere name-calling.

EA-3167 3y ago
Whole subs on Reddit are essentially rendered worthless because the comments are all low-effort, meme responses. This is one of the only places I've been online where the discussion of Prigozhin's death wasn't just 500+ "Fell out of a window" comments. THANK YOU
- 93po 3y ago
  You have my updoots good sir
- vunderba 3y ago
  100%. Whenever I read somebody's response on an article, the first thing that lights up for me cognitively - "is this a reddit-level comment?". How many times have you seen a deeply nested Reddit thread where each reply is maybe a single sentence long, and they're all low hanging word puns? Just completely worthless threads that are all noise.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- yreg 3y ago
  I would really like an /r/worldnews clone with joke comments forbidden.
  - xp84 3y ago
    Isn’t /r/anime_titties the serious world news sub? AFAIK worldnews is crap due to bad moderation.

blackpill0w 3y ago

Isn't that (partly) the point of the upvote button?

dredmorbius 3y ago
A thanks (especially from the person the thanked comment is responding to) can serve as a validation that the information provided was useful and appropriate, which an upvote alone fails to convey. From my own recent history, this subthread: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37115294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37115294>.

jasonlotito 3y ago

Good news, you can! "Thanks" is 100% substantive! From dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37030249

johnnyanmac 3y ago

> But I think discouraging this slightly leans behaviour towards snark vs not. who are you thanking? the mechanics of HN means that a uesr would have to actively search around for a response, so odds are your thanks simply goes the ether.

suddenclarity 3y ago
I partially "solved" this by bookmarking the page showing my most recent comments and their replies so I can skim it before going to the front-page. I understand the reasoning behind the functionality but there is a lot of knowledge in replies so I wouldn't want to be without it.
jacquesm 3y ago
There is the 'threads' link at the top of the page, which shows you all your recent comments and their replies.

vunderba 3y ago

I disagree, there is an upload button which delivers the equivalent of thanks. I don't think it's too much to ask that an expression of gratitude also take the time to include something meaningful. This is one of the biggest differentiators from Reddit.

pkulak 3y ago

I almost always have something more than “thanks” to say. Like, “Good point about the enfabulator, I hadn’t thought of that. Thanks.” Or, “Oh yeah, I will have to try that way. Seems very promising. Thank you.”

dizhn 3y ago

I've never gotten in trouble for saying thanks. :) (Like anywhere)